Thanks for the nice Fe-Si video of your sister, Auburn, but I have stopped identifying as FeSi because I can't settle into the whole Si thing. Also, it's not just type. I am wracked with indecision. As soon as I finally settle on a course, it's like a devil comes out from somewhere and starts to beat me up about it...I am simply incapable of settling on a decision, I will always find a way to question it and throw it out and now I see that as something psychological. That's why no matter what type I think I am, I will throw it out eventually. I call it self-sabotage, it affects every aspect of my life. Sorry to dump here but I'm coming out of a whirlwind of such indecision in very important aspects of my life, right after dealing with a death in the family three months ago.Is there a type that is poor at decisions? That is me! My judgment functions are all bullies. inward and outward judgments all of them, that's all I know. None of them is a guide or a compass. Just bullies. There to make me think I'm stupid or that I missed something or convince me that I will regret my decision. Sure enough, an hour after I had spent a long time deciding and had found a decision I liked, I will throw it out...just like that! It's like I'm addicted to a lack of peace or a false promise of finding something that doesn't exist. Except even if I do find it, I will find a way to see it as not it. I hate this! So. damn. much. I fear I will never settle in a relationship or a career or a home. Because something will convince me to sabotage what I have in favor of something that might still be out there. Even if what I have, I have found after relentless search and even if I initially felt lucky and relieved to find it. One hour later, out comes the devil. I have a fear of success. Or a fear of happiness. One or the other. My issue to deal with.
Aqua - I may understand some of where you're coming from, and I hate to see others struggle in some of the same ways.
Perhaps you will find some solace, encouragement and/or clarity from the small exchange Erifrail and I had within The Ni-Ti Corridor thread - I have quoted the main pieces of what I'm referring to from that thread below.
*P.S. I have since been typed as TiNe, so don't let the "Ni-Ti" name of the linked thread throw you.
Right now, I'm attempting to nail down a major/minor/certificates as I'm going to college for the first time this January. Although no one is requiring me to have all these particulars nailed down, there's a drive within me to have it nailed down...it's difficult to put into words, but it's nearly debilitating at times, where I feel like I can't move forward with anything else in life until I've nailed it down. Dumb I know, but it's real for me.
Then to make it worse, any further research or thought put into it sometimes causes me to re-evaluate everything all over again. It feels like a horrific feedback loop (caught in the "grip" of two functions?) where I wish some all-knowing mentor could step in and say, "Here, do this, then this, then this and here's why and here's how it'll all turn out." I tend to drive my FiSe wife crazy in these times, as she's more app to make decisions more confidently and just stick with them, not coming back to analyze or doubt them nearly as much.
If anything, I just needed to get that all off my chest, but figured it might be of help here...
This is an incredible level of Ti... How can I go about describing this. *thinks* I have never interacted with someone quite like you in person or online either. But I have a suspicion I might know why. I don't wish to assert anything here, maybe just share my line of thought... if it can be of use.
Rather than describing broad impressions, panoramas, or conceptual tapestries formulating and ebbing across your psyche, you describe a dominating process of self-doubt; of (de)constructive speculation and (re)organization. You describe an experience which is re-creating its perception. In other words, judgment (particularly Ji) is overpowering Pi and leading over it --- not allowing for a fixed worldview to reign.
It seems as though questioning, meticulous analysis and precision are being given priority over breadth, width and vision (although both exist). I can see why you'd relate so much with the INTP profile. If you think about it, when Ti is exceedingly heavy, then the input of the Pe process (Ne or Se) is so negligible that it becomes mostly irrelevant. Your Ti is so heavy that real-time thinking is not rushed at all. It's funny but when you said "I desperately wish I could stop time, research and understand everything, then start time again (maybe ;-)" that's an experience I had for many years in childhood. The world moved far far too fast for me. I would never get a leg-in on a conversation because I was thinking about the conversation so intently and seriously (and rehashing the concept or the sentence structure of it) that by the time I knew what I wanted to say, it was hours later. When I mentioned in the other thread that I didn't have a sense of humor, part of that was due to Ti-heaviness applying intentional and exhaustive (tho it wasn't exhausting to me) contemplation toward every thought.
I would hear a statement, and my initial response was to evaluate the statement via Ti for conceptual purity - and even if the first conclusion drawn was "oh... this is a rhetorical statement, meant to be amusing", the inquiry could often be satiated with that conclusion itself, rather than moving on to the implications of it (like what to do/say about it). This is a reluctance of Pe to participate in the external world. It is not given free reign, so spontaneity is rare. Instead, Pe is used at the agenda and timing of Ji. Even though it is used, it's exercised mostly through deliberation such as through drawing or playing games.
But I also feel differences/divergences... mentally and also physically. It's subtle, but I feel your thoughts follow a more causal sequence, although they do circle around and under the topic. The TiNe has to 'chase down' their own Ne's divergent directions a bit more haphazardly. Though, in many cases I expect there's ample overlap. And the TiNe, despite drastic slowdown and neutralization, has that little 'bounce' to them that can't fully be concealed. Hmm.. like this Ti-heavy TiNe. Or an embarrassing vid of young me. Along with the 'bounce' comes also that divergence of attention and the direction thoughts end up going because of how Ne interacts when subordinate to Ti.
I hadn't thought about how Se may act when subordinate to a very heavy Ti, but when I think about it, it'd expect something very similar to you. Se-Ni has more of a linear intensity/weight rather than a 'bounce'. This weight, amplified by Ti's neutralization would be seen through a very heavy countenance. And the strong halting of Pe would cause Se to slow down so much that we may only see Ni. This is what I've seen of your videos, which confused me because your eyes remain steady Ni-lead-ish but your energy is less Pi than Ji, and your neutralization has always been at max, while very little Fe shows. It seems you're operating almost exclusively with Ti and Ni (if TiNi was a type, you'd be it ), and little of Se or Fe gets through.
Yet, your preferred activities, creative outlets and interests all do center around Se and Fe (i.e. social dynamics, learning about them and adding clarity to that causality... as well as track/field/ultimate-frisbee/golf/etc) but they're addressed on Ti's terms.
This is all just a working hypothesis... Since you're the only case I've seen quite like this I'm not even convinced of my own thoughts, until I see it to be a pattern. But I just hope these thoughts can lead somewhere, even if I'm totally off base.
Last Edit: Aug 25, 2016 10:16:06 GMT -5 by Amsterdam
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.” – Albert Einstein
Post by ayoungspirit on Aug 24, 2016 15:25:17 GMT -5
Aqua : Don't bother yourself too much with our debates. Of course, type is our main interest, but what we mean is to share a bit of who we are. For me, I am sorry about your loss and hope to read you again.
Authenticity, sorry to hear about these things u are going through, and hope u find relief soon. You questioned about a connection between types and the struggles u mentioned. well, as far as my type works within me, as Ne-lead, although I am not afraid of changes (I love changes), I settle in situations and decisions without effort if they are good for me (even if my psique is always tuned to a sense of 'what is about to come' and how things can become, and I am not really indicisive overall. I only resign from jobs and relationships when I am dissatisfied and convinced there is no room for growth there, overwise I stick to them trying to enthusiastically improve/change them and myself in them, change them (when it is possible) instead of dropping (the greener pastures over there has not been a moto for me. I've wondered if I have much more Si playing a role in my psique than my visual signals show). My take is that these traits in you might be more something psychological than connected to lack of Si, or any function, just wondering). As far as typologies go, the issues u described reminded me a lot of enneagram point 6 (self-sabotage, fear of success, giving up, doubting and struggling to identify with a type, etc). Not that you are necessarily a type 6, but these are issues connected with point 6. Look into that, if you'd like. It seems u are searching for answers.
PS: With friendships I start to detach with no struggle when I consider that connection not be ok for any given reason and drop them in a very futuristic mode (my feelings in friendships can vanish quickly as Te kicks in a very matter of fact way , and shows me theres no sense in that) while Ne throws me straight into the future almost not seeing the past - and I rarely have moments of 'missing the good moments' if compared with the thought that that friendship was not doing good to me. With love that is different as the connection is of a different nature, but I remember counseling/comforting an ex mother-in-law (many years ago) by telling her with immense heart-felt and head-felt positivity (I still loved her son but was totally convinced he was incapable of making me happy, and leaving him was hurting me a lot, but I was sure that was best thing to do): 'it is better to keep our chins up and observe what novel things the New days will bring... every time a door closes, another door opens and if we look down or behind we don't have the eyes to see these new doors'. But I never regretted or doubted my decision of dropping that relationshio, which seems different from the things u are describing.
Last Edit: Aug 24, 2016 17:05:43 GMT -5 by morsecode
Whoaah...so much support! Thanks people. I feel guilty for messing Erifrail's sample series thread....maybe he can split this conversation into another thread.
@amsterdam, thanks! I liked reading those quotes. I'm not sure what my issue is, but reading @morsecode 's post, I think perhaps it maybe a lack of a healthy Fi. Some type people say Fi is the function that knows what you really want deep down...maybe that helps in decision-making. In every situation you know what is you and what isn't. Or maybe its not type at all. Maybe I have other serious issues. Thanks for your condolensce ayoungspirit , appreciate it.
Post by ayoungspirit on Aug 27, 2016 8:50:05 GMT -5
Aqua : if we choose to remain within the confine of type, I am willing to say that your defiance toward Si is in keeping with your overall testimony.
Pi or worldview in general is concerned with all the informations we have integrated, all the things we know. Some of these are very deep seated, like the meaning of everyday objects, and others are more superficial, like our CT type. Yet, all of them are static memories which are rarely if at all erased from our brains, and rather disconnected. If they are not challenged, they become habits, whether in thought or behavior. By virtue of their constancy, they evoke a strong sense of steadiness and identity, even if it is not articulated. People who favor Pi not only find easy to settle down, they see the world as regular, sometimes to the point where they become oblivious to change. One can assume they do not even think much about it, since the act of recall is itself transformative.
On the other hand, Ji is all about cutting off information, whether old or new. As a judgement process, it examines the consistency of input, according to a criteria of logic or ethic, and if unsatisfying, it excludes it from the worldview, until what stays is conform. In synergy with Pi, it can help distinguish what is principal in an individual, and disqualify detrimental thoughts. Conversely, if it becomes overly prominent, it can question everything until reality itself becomes shaky.
Moreover, this process is most often drawn when external input, collected by Pe, is disruptive toward our worldview. The perceptive and thus impartial nature of Pi means that it can tolerate the proximate existence of contradicting memories, it can lives both in the past and present. This is not the case with Ji which has to decide between the two.
It would be misplaced for me to read the situation, so I hope these statements are self-sufficient. According to my understanding, someone who has already a very reactive Ji and a less reactive Pi, might be pushed further in their disposition when facing a destabilizing event, like a change of job, a move, a breakup, or, sadly, a loss. In turn, the resulting indecisiveness might upset Je, who pursues a define action, and thus often benefit from a stable worldview.
Finding what one really want is the best of both Ji and Pi, but it still needs ground to happen. Fortunately, there can be a lot of dependable things in our life, from places, to people, to memories and else. Carl Jung probably taught us something valuable about Pi when he acknowledged that some deep memories were living inside our dreams, and that we should rest on them.
This is FiNe Salman, whose was generous enough to submit his video:
I apologize for the audio of this one (and the bird in the background!) I added subtitles to help alleviate the effect a little.
This is a very iconic 'aspie' shade of FiNe. This shade is the shade that often becomes "The Scientist" and which may be prone to a disconnect from people, while simultaneously being very strongly and privately moral.
I don't know if the stuttering is due to him speaking in a non-native language, but it's similar to the tripping-over-words effect we can find in TeNe combinations; I think it may be a combination of both.
Last Edit: Sept 18, 2016 23:57:31 GMT -5 by Auburn
I should note he's an FiSi (FiNe-Si) type with sullen Fi energy. He was conflicted between FiNe and FiSe in the MBTI because of having mixed N & S traits, which is in line with what we'd expect from an FiNe-Si subtype. There's also some possibility he's SiFi, if FiSi was wrong. This is a subtype with very few samples at the moment, but the way in which his sullen Fi permeates his demeanor is very distinct. It's the same we find on Princess Diana and our volunteer Lee.
He has strong Ne and Fe, but you can see his Ti activate around 1:45+ (Ti meticulous hands) when he starts to halt the momentum of Ne and begin to delineate his thoughts. Lots of Fe also present in his warm and approachable energy (and wide smile).
Conscious Ne+Ti+Fe, subconscious or unconscious Si. You remind me of ScrumptiousScran 's video -- which was taken down but it'd be awesome to see you both side by side.
Last Edit: Sept 22, 2017 20:34:46 GMT -5 by Auburn