Neuroticism, the feeling functions, Ti, health...etc
May 22, 2016 3:36:30 GMT -5 by Aqua
Hrafn likes this
Post by Aqua on May 22, 2016 3:36:30 GMT -5
I waa going to discuss just one thing then as usual it turned into many things, lol! General discussion is therefore as good a place to put that as any, I guess.
I was reading about neurotics vs character-disordered persons on this site, and I saw the definition of neuroticism by this doctor given as having an overdeveloped conscience/superego. In fact, he says neurotics have a huuuuge sense of right/wrong and that they experience stress because the standards they've set for themselves are just so high. By contrast, the character-disordered have an underdeveloped or even an entirely absent (for the psychopaths/sociopaths) conscience which makes them very different from the majority of humans. So neurotics are overly consientious persons who experience a great deal of anxiety when they think they've hurt someone and may come to irrational conclusions (about supposed "harm" they've supposedly inflicted) that causes them a great deal of stress. The character-disordered are the least conscientious persons, those we would consider genuinely awful persons once we got to know how callously they inflict harm.
So as usual I was thinking about Jungian types and got to wondering if neurotics may be either high Fi or Fe users (Leads and auxiliaries) or contrarily, people with over-developed Fi or Fe for whom this is not ideal/healthy? I'm basically thinking in that latter case that if Fi or Fe is your third or fourth natural function and through whatever pressures or difficulties your psyche latches on to it and gives it far more resources than it should at the expense of your natural strengths, you get an imbalanced mind and a dictatorial superego, hence become neurotic, filled with guilt, shame and anxiety about things that might not bother other healthy F types/versions of your type.
Or you may just be an F lead/auxilliary, lol!
If so, neurotics would not be unhealthy...or perhaps..hmm. ..another thought...perhaps neuroticsm is the way Fe/Fi types go unhealthy or what they look like when unhealthy. Considering the other discussion going on about functions being unconscious, it may be that neurotics have totally submerged their thinking tip of their judgment see-saw into the unconsious and thus have no way of checking/being objective about their ethical conclusions.
Either way, it seems they would then need to develop their thinking functions to balance their overbearing Fi/Fe, so as to be happy. At least I think this to be the kind of therapy they get...aims to make them more "sensible" about their thought processes so that they can unburden themselves and sort of tone down their superego a notch. Or perhaps that is done via their perception functions.
Those symptoms he's described are very familiar to me, by the way. The excessive guilt/shame and more or less permanent anxiety. From memory, it is has been a recurring feature, though far far worse when I was in my late teens, to the point of depression. I think growing happier, healthier has come through perspective. I don't know if that perspective has been gained by perception or rather by Ti, which gives wisdom/detachment of sorts. I really love having a rich moral compass but I think it has caused me a great deal of pain as well as good in my past as well (way more good than pain, or good through pain sometimes). I think it makes you feel guilty even for being OK when others are suffering (what could be more irrational than that?) but helps you not turn character-disordered, which is good! I also think it gravitated me towards a religion with a highly sophisticated and self-consistent moral philosophy that guided me through a highly troubled teen-hood and young adulthood...helped me grow up and not turn narcissistic, but then later became a broom to beat myself up with. Come to think of it, one aspect of it (confession) that was preceded by honest self-reflection that I absolutely loved may have been because of Ti. Radical honesty. In fact, I have come to love and adopt many aspects of Buddhist practices/meditation because of the practice of self-honesty...what am I feeling now? Why? Is this thought true? Can I know that it is true? And accepting the answers that I find. Which is all very freeing.
I wonder what this says about development too? Lacking 100% certainty about the exact order of my oscillations/functions makes it hard to speculate. I may have been an Ne child who sought and found a life philosophy that rang true. Or I may have been an Fe child who gravitated tonwards the philosophy that was logically self-consistent and rang true to me
Just a thought! (As usual)
I was reading about neurotics vs character-disordered persons on this site, and I saw the definition of neuroticism by this doctor given as having an overdeveloped conscience/superego. In fact, he says neurotics have a huuuuge sense of right/wrong and that they experience stress because the standards they've set for themselves are just so high. By contrast, the character-disordered have an underdeveloped or even an entirely absent (for the psychopaths/sociopaths) conscience which makes them very different from the majority of humans. So neurotics are overly consientious persons who experience a great deal of anxiety when they think they've hurt someone and may come to irrational conclusions (about supposed "harm" they've supposedly inflicted) that causes them a great deal of stress. The character-disordered are the least conscientious persons, those we would consider genuinely awful persons once we got to know how callously they inflict harm.
So as usual I was thinking about Jungian types and got to wondering if neurotics may be either high Fi or Fe users (Leads and auxiliaries) or contrarily, people with over-developed Fi or Fe for whom this is not ideal/healthy? I'm basically thinking in that latter case that if Fi or Fe is your third or fourth natural function and through whatever pressures or difficulties your psyche latches on to it and gives it far more resources than it should at the expense of your natural strengths, you get an imbalanced mind and a dictatorial superego, hence become neurotic, filled with guilt, shame and anxiety about things that might not bother other healthy F types/versions of your type.
Or you may just be an F lead/auxilliary, lol!
If so, neurotics would not be unhealthy...or perhaps..hmm. ..another thought...perhaps neuroticsm is the way Fe/Fi types go unhealthy or what they look like when unhealthy. Considering the other discussion going on about functions being unconscious, it may be that neurotics have totally submerged their thinking tip of their judgment see-saw into the unconsious and thus have no way of checking/being objective about their ethical conclusions. Either way, it seems they would then need to develop their thinking functions to balance their overbearing Fi/Fe, so as to be happy. At least I think this to be the kind of therapy they get...aims to make them more "sensible" about their thought processes so that they can unburden themselves and sort of tone down their superego a notch. Or perhaps that is done via their perception functions.
Those symptoms he's described are very familiar to me, by the way. The excessive guilt/shame and more or less permanent anxiety. From memory, it is has been a recurring feature, though far far worse when I was in my late teens, to the point of depression. I think growing happier, healthier has come through perspective. I don't know if that perspective has been gained by perception or rather by Ti, which gives wisdom/detachment of sorts. I really love having a rich moral compass but I think it has caused me a great deal of pain as well as good in my past as well (way more good than pain, or good through pain sometimes). I think it makes you feel guilty even for being OK when others are suffering (what could be more irrational than that?) but helps you not turn character-disordered, which is good! I also think it gravitated me towards a religion with a highly sophisticated and self-consistent moral philosophy that guided me through a highly troubled teen-hood and young adulthood...helped me grow up and not turn narcissistic, but then later became a broom to beat myself up with. Come to think of it, one aspect of it (confession) that was preceded by honest self-reflection that I absolutely loved may have been because of Ti. Radical honesty. In fact, I have come to love and adopt many aspects of Buddhist practices/meditation because of the practice of self-honesty...what am I feeling now? Why? Is this thought true? Can I know that it is true? And accepting the answers that I find. Which is all very freeing.
I wonder what this says about development too? Lacking 100% certainty about the exact order of my oscillations/functions makes it hard to speculate. I may have been an Ne child who sought and found a life philosophy that rang true. Or I may have been an Fe child who gravitated tonwards the philosophy that was logically self-consistent and rang true to me
Just a thought! (As usual)
. The preoccupation of most people's minds, most of the time, is spent chasing to resolve some inward tension, unrequieted feelings, projections, instincts and archetypes -- and this is ultimately the source of the world's poetry, music, art as well as war, pain and suffering.
