Post by tobyspringfield on May 4, 2017 17:05:18 GMT -5
Fe in itself is about the emotional landscape on the outside so directive and adaptive Fe is less about the effect on the individual, which is more Fi, but rather the situation at hand and what is needed to move social protocol better, either an affable chameleon or an outspoken honey badger.
And exactly, what I've seen is when the NeFi or FiNe try to take the edge off their emotions, it's via using Te as a thicker skin or shield. It doesn't result in neutralization of feeling, as much as in protectiveness. But I always see that deeper affect, lurking beneath.
Is this consistent throughout the course of development? I know you think it's genetic, and that born Fi, one with always be Fi-Te (Unless, of course, it's like AB bloodtype...). But if it's epigenetic, couldn't one be undifferentiated?
Also general question to the TiNe's here - how do you deal with your emotions? If you feel sad for example - what do you do?
The way I've experienced and approached emotion has changed over the years. Like amsterdam and zweilous, I've suffered from anxiety and depression most my life, so I think that effects things a lot.
Although for the very first part of my life I didn't feel much in the way of happiness, sadness, etc. I've always felt the abstract essence of things very prominently. Erifrail describes this sort of experience wonderfully in saying emotions are like colors. To me, the world feels kind of like a dynamic painting which shifts in tonality and theme depending on environment, situation, internal thoughts, etc. It was through this kind of intuitive sense that I first began to navigate the world, I'd seek out places, music and things which evoked the most beautiful feelings. There was no attempt to control/suppress these things, resonance simply guided the flow of my being.
When I was about the age of 2, I had an experience that permanently changed my emotional landscape. It was my first existential crisis and the moment when my personality became quantified. Before this, I felt like a silent, invisible sphere which all the colors of the world passed through. There was no sense of 'self', I wasn't separate from all else that surrounded me. But then the moment came when being and life were realized to be finite.. I remember standing on the sidewalk under a dusk sky, staring down an empty road that ran through the softened landscape and disappeared into a dark grotto. This seemed a metaphor for life, and for the first time I realized that I was inside this little body that would someday cease to exist. I was mortal. I felt such a profound sadness, as if eternity had been stolen away from me and the world made tragically ephemeral. From that moment on, my soul was stained with that melancholy and the color of the sky associated with it; I was my own feeling/meaning, and separate from the rest of the world. This feeling is still sacred to me, it is mono-no-aware, and unless I'm detached from it in Ti-mode, is felt subtly in all things.
For a while I continued to feel either sorrow (sometimes mixed with other forms of beauty) or nothing. The stillness was a safe haven, a grounding-place, as others have described it. Emotion was just an automatic sensing of the world that would come and go. Then I began experiencing trauma, and learned to shield my internal world and resist the toxic input coming from outside. I became afraid of some of my emotions, and detached from them. This only became more severe when I started experiencing anger, which was terribly jarring and counter to what I thought was 'right'. I began auditing my emotions, stopping them in their tracks and determining whether or not they were appropriate. If I thought they weren't, they were dissipated or suppressed. Eventually it all overwhelmed me so much that I split away from the 'dark' aspect of myself and controlled it tightly with logic and resistance. This turned into OCD and I lived in compulsive anxiety for the next 18 years, hardly ever aware of any other feeling except sometimes despair or inspiration when it was strong enough.
In the last 4 years, I've gone through an extensive reparation which included facing all of the suppressed emotions and memories I had. I refuse to detach from my emotions now, and instead let them manifest while analyzing their causality. Happiness, sadness, anger and intuitive impressions alike, I mostly keep my feelings to myself, and use them as a means for self understanding and development. I'm still addicted to beauty and enticed by mystery, these I seek without limits. The injured state of my soul has manifested in my body as illness, and so I become weak at times and will lapse into depression. When this happens, I use self-analysis and/or talk to someone close to me to sort out the feeling. Ultimately, every state is finite though, and if all else fails it will eventually transition or fade on its own.
I love this quote from Rilke, it sums up the premise of my approach:
“Let everything happen to you Beauty and terror Just keep going No feeling is final”
Emotion/feelings- When your feels sacs squirt feel juice into your blood and it makes you like or dislike things. "Feelings" can also include non-emotional things like intuition/instinct, but they're all irrational compulsions toward or away from things, so I consider them functionally the same.
Emotionality- The inner emotional landscape formed by the sum of your emotional experience, including but not limited to all terms defined here.
Sensitivity- The ease with which you are affected emotionally by the environment. Distinct from but includes: -Empathy- The ease with which you are affected by another's emotional state. -Reactivity- The degree to which you can remove yourself from an emotion enough to make a rational decision about it.
Passion- The subject of an emotional response, consistent over time, to the degree that the individual is compelled to take some sort of action to facilitate or prevent the subject. This action can be something as small as reading a book or having a conversation, but it's not a passion if you don't care enough to spend lots of attention on it.
By these definitions, I would only say I'm low on reactivity. I've got plenty of emotions about things, and I consider myself pretty typical in terms of sensitivity (violence in movies doesn't upset me anymore, though it did as a kid, and I care about and identify with things in other people). But the key is, unless I'm really stressed or tired, everything that happens to me goes through a filter of "hold up, let's see what this is before we go crazy". Even then it's not hard to make me sad/mad/laugh if you know what I like and hate, I just don't go immediately from emotion to action. I'm less good at responding to emergencies, though d:
I think this type of Ti/Fe self disclosure and self-as-object (in the Alanis video)is shocking to the more private Te-Fi's. I can feel when that they are sometimes uncomfortable with it, as it's totally not their mode of operation. I agree with you that is how Fe/Ti work together. They draw on bigger themes of humanity and psychology. More narrator than subject.
This thread is beautiful. But I wanted to make one comment about this quote: >> "Feelings" can also include non-emotional things like intuition/instinct, but they're all irrational compulsions toward or away from things <<
I do agree that feelings can be irrational, and many times are, but that said, I ask you to consider the following:
Let's say that we have woman who sees a man day by day, he is not comely, he is not strong nor wise nor powerful nor any other attribute that we would link to an instinctual attraction. So this man holds no place in her heart nor brings forth emotions of any meaningful kind.
Now let's say that this women later comes to learn many truths about this same man: That he is kind, gentle, keeps no record of wrongs, does not envy, does not boast, always hopes, always perseveres, and always endures in his affections for the weak and afflicted in this world.
And then she comes to learn many more things, that he was once a man of power, who relinquished it to serve, and that he ever works for the good of those in his charge, even if imperfectly due to his lack of wordly means.
Do you not suppose that great and powerful emotion would now swell from within her breast for this man? And the fire of her passion is fueled by her knowledge of this wonderful creature. Indeed, if her heart is a furnace then the logs thrown therein are the knowledge and truth of the virtues of the object of her affection.
And so my claim is that there is a relationship non-bestial between knowledge and emotion and that tremendous passion (in fact, the purest and best passion of all) may arise from the rational alone. We are much more than the sum of our physical parts and instincts. This is but one evidence of that truth.
I don't consider the second set of attributes to be more rational that the other. Wisdom and humility are both attractive attributes in a partner, no? She learned something about the man that she found she liked- the fact that she likes those things is outside her control. Did she decide that those characteristics were attractive to her, or did she discover it? She may not be able to articulate what she likes about him until she decides what to call those feelings, but the feelings themselves sprang forth unbidden.
Irrationality in the cognitive sense refers to information that more or less happens to us. I didn't decide the sky is blue, I "just know" because I look out and see it. It makes me angry when people are bullies or take advantage of others. Again, I didn't reason out that bullying is wrong and thus I "should" be angry about it, I'm just reacting to the self-evident wrongness of humans hurting each other like that. So irrationality isn't necessarily less desirable than rationality, either-- it's what we rationally decide to do with our irrational collection of information that counts.
I would almost argue that feelings are never rational at all, only the circumstances by which we encounter them. I'm not mad about things that I don't know about-- rationality can deliberately search for and uncover those things, like unintentional sexism and racism, for my irrationality to then inform me I'm angry about.