It seems to me that most people here who have been typed had a similar function "order" with MBTI. What I mean by this is the P and J part of MBTI seem to be accurate thus far. Even though the P and J descriptions in MBTI are mostly behavioural, they determine the function order of a type. J types are JePi or PiJe, and P types are PeJi or JiPe. What I have seen is that people who have been typed "J" in MBTI actually use JePi or PiJe, and people who have been typed "P" in MBTI use PeJi or JiPe. Not sure how much sense this makes to everyone or if anyone else noticed this. Here are some examples:
I score "INTJ" on MBTI tests, my type= SiTe. mv scored "ENTJ" and ESTJ" on MBTI tests, his type= TeNi. aj1023 scored various "J" types, his type= undetermined, but seems TeNi or NiTe.
Those are just people who I know the test results and type of, but:
peppergirl identified as INFP, her type seems PeFi or FiPe. cheesumpuffs identified as INTP, his type= NeTi
etc.
I'm not saying that MBTI is accurate as far as functions or actual type, but it seems like the "J" and "P" are kind of accurate.
In all the mbti test i did the result was INTJ. In one socionics test the result was INTj/LII (logical-intuitive intratim), so, for me is like you said. Well, not so but i think for other people can be absolutely wrong, for example my brother is a FiNe, but in a test he turned out INTJ, and this is quite absurd in my opinion, knowing him. it depends from numberless factor, the sincerity in the answers and the kind of questions. But i have to say that most of the time the questions are absolutely stupid, so the answer could be sincere, but if the question is wrong at the start the result cannot be right.
._.-._EDIT._.-._ In my opinion, all of this tests are wrong (apart the original by Jung), simply because try to figure out what "inner" persona are you, hoping that the individuals who have the same personality have also the same cognitive functions... NEEEEEH, wrong. If you "know" me in the real world, i may seem the classical INTJ that you can read in the description online, but i'm absolutely a TiNe as a matter of fact, i know that those functions are right in my persona.
Anyone who knows MBTI and knows me would probably say I'm INTJ. By the descriptions of MBTI, I am an INTJ. I think my type (in CT) is definitely SiTe, and I see how it manifests in me. On what you said about tests, I don't think any of the written tests/ tests that you have to answer are accurate. There will always be bias, and the questions usually are not very good.
I just noticed that the topic of the thread seemed to be true for many people, and that it was a correlation, not 100% accurate.
well, I noticed that the mbti test has hard times at define the introvert types, my first opinion about it was a personal conclusion: mbti is "E-centric", also the acronyms of the introvert types are subordinated to the extroverted types, "INTJs" are in fact INTPs and "INTPs" are INTJs... the same thing is repeated with every introverted types, is absolutely confusing. Second, it has some difficulties to define the P functions. Some mbti descriptions you can read on internet are wrong, sometimes you can read something like "Ne is reasoning about..." is wrong at the start, the P's are not about reasoning , you can read "box metaphors" to describe the differences between Ne and Ni that are actually pointless.
Anyone who knows MBTI and knows me would probably say I'm INTJ. By the descriptions of MBTI, I am an INTJ. I think my type (in CT) is definitely SiTe, and I see how it manifests in me.
But in that way MBTI has more to do with the Enneagram than the jungian theory... it became a personality test like, wrongly, it is.
MBTI is basically, at this point, just a personality test. I think that it actually helps a lot of people that feel like they're so different from everyone else, or people who just don't really know who they are. It can help anyone grow and define their personality, and if need be categorize their behaviour to a group of other people. It has its value, but there are no implications of it, and I wouldn't consider it to be a valid theory due to its incosistency and lack of proof.
About the "E-centric" part of MBTI, it's the first extroverted function. Socionics takes the approach where the first function determines "P" or "J". The first extroverted function will be a large component of what a person projects as their personality. Assuming all the questions were perfect and well-defined (in terms of CT), "INTJ"s would test as "INTP" in MBTI because they are perceivers, and people that don't really know their personality well would judge by their behaviour rather than their thoughts and beliefs, so a non-introspective "INTJ" would probably test "INTJ". This, of course, is NOT true though. The flaw here is that the nature of P-leads and J-leads are defined wrong, thereby making the questions and the test flawed.
Yes, I think most of the descriptions of the P functions are incorrect. I think this would have to do with how MBTI uses four letter codes which makes it seem like there aren't other functions at work, or they have a very small role. If the other functions had such a small role, then obviously the lack of explained processes would be compensated for with extra things added to functions. So all the behaviours and things that a certain type does with their four functions would be written out in their two dominant functions. (Not actually all of it, but more)
The reason MBTI has a margin of success in typing some people moderately correct is because MBTI is a behavior-based attempt at Jung's work -- and behavior does have some correlation to cognition if you understand it. But the correlation, as MBTI defines the profiles, isn't more than 40% correct. That is to say, the descriptions MBTI gives properly describe about 1/3 of people that are actually of that type.
These are generally the people who are heavy on their lead and supportive process, which make up some percent of the population. But MBTI completely mistypes the other 2/3, which are people who do have development of their lower processes or abnormal development. There is literally no way MBTI can compensate for this. It is inescapably limited to that, because it is behavior-based and if it expanded the behavioral profile of a type more then more people who correctly belong to that type will relate to it -- but then so will a lot more people who aren't that type. The net result would be the same or worse ratio of people in their correct {stereo}type.
I agree with the above. MBTI is behavioral. I just wanted to emphasize something, probably off topic. Enneagram is not behavioral too. At least not the real enneagram. However, I think it's not as accurately measurable as I believe CT is (via VR). There's a huge overlap between different types (specially adding a tritype theory) that show similar behaviors. It's more personal. That's how I see it.