AD/HD and PE

This ADHD description by Dr. Tom Brown describes a lot of what I associate with Ne, especially the bits about struggles with attention. I especially liked the analogy he gives about trying to watch TV but having four different channels on at the same time. It reminded of the Christmas lights brain pattern Dario Nardi mapped to Ne.

I was recently diagnosed as NOT having ADD. I was tested because I'd been having some struggles with staying focused/engaged, and because a number of people I'm close with--the sorts who love to offer armchair diagnoses--thought it was obvious that I had ADD. There was never any question about the hyperactivity part--my energy level trends lower than average, although it's pretty variable. That said, I have plenty of attention-defiicient traits. I'm chronically late, start more projects than I finish, get spaced out during meetings & group conversations, lose things, make negligent mistakes, and am generally quite a bit slower than average at completing a variety of different tasks (even if I'm focused, I'm just not fast for whatever reason). In my youth I took calculus three different times but never passed it because it was just so dry, boring & abstract that I could never get focused enough to actually learn much anything. I haven't had a chance to look at the above video yet, but the Ne "procrastination monkey" thing from another thread describes me pretty well.

Going in to get tested, I wasn't sure but I thought there was a pretty good chance that I had ADD. Among other things, the testing included long questionaires, several hours of interviews about various aspects of my life, and exercised designed to test cognitive skills. During the cognitive exercises that I came to the realization that I almost surely didn't have ADD. I became so intently engaged and focused with all of the exercises, and concentration seemed like no obstacle at all. When the lady doing the testing asked me to define and explain certain words, I gave very nuanced and detailed explanations. When she gave me increasingly long sequences of numbers and asked me to recite them backwards to her, I was able to do most of them without much problem. These exercises went on for several hours, but I never felt any particular need to stop or take a break. She later told me that people who actually have ADD often have to stop in the middle of these exercises. I don't know if I can explain why it was so easy for me to concentrate other than that these exercises were engaging--almost in sort of the same way that board-games and things like that are engaging.

One thing I've noticed with my attention span is that its natural state is not always scattered or jumping all over the place; on the contrary it can be very unilinearly focused. But this doesn't mean that I feel like I have complete control over its focus: I can't necessarily point my mind toward something and say "concentrate on this." Often it just goes where it will, and I can't do much except to let it complete its journey or get to a dead end. This is especially noticeable when I'm heavily preoccupied with something--let's say at some particular time that I'm stewing over some interpersonal difficulties, anticipating a trip I've been planning, or fretting about the possibility of nuclear war--the preoccupying subject can consume so much of my attention that it becomes difficult for me to focus on other things. During these times I can become rather unobservant and neglectful, and the reality around me can seem sort of dream-like. Eight or nine years ago, when this was at an extreme, I was actually having some symptoms that seemed sort of OCD-like.

I've also tried Adderall a number of times, both recreationally and with practical intention. At best I've had mixed results with it. It sometimes has given me very intense focus or concentration, but not necessarily on the task at hand. Sometimes I've gotten hubris or unwarranted self-assurance from it that has actually undermined my productivity. Most importantly, though, it just isn't very comfortable. I often feel like my energy level is unnaturally amped up; I feel somehow a little off homeostasis, less settled within my own body. Sometimes I've thought that taking weed with high CBD (and low THC) helps me concentrate, but I think I've also sort of had mixed results with this. More than anything, I've come to the conclusion that it's sort of a mental game more than anything else. If I actually want to get something done, or if I'm under enough pressure, I can usually make it happen. The mental game is about evenly and consistently wanting: remembering, each day, all of the various goals and projects, and wanting to follow through with them enough that I can avoid having my attention siphoned away by whatever else might come along.

Auburn Absolutely. Ever since school became a place where we all have to sit down and shut up and be trained like factory workers, Je was the gold standard. As you know, despite my seeming lack of identification with it, I have enough Te to get by, but it’s generally excruciating. And this is coming from a teacher.

Also, about your 9-5 comment, we can’t all forget that for millions of years, we were a hunter gatherer people. We’ve only been an agricultural people for a tiny blip of time in comparison. Our old instincts are still screaming and we don’t need them anymore. Agricultural societies require Je. Staying in one place, organizing, working the field, keeping on top of things, establishing structure, etc. But hunter gatherer? Seems like a Pe world to me. Travelling, going with the flow, impulsiveness, forgetting the past in favour of new territory, etc.

I was officially diagnosed with ADD, the non hyperactive kind. I’m an Ni lead- and now I know my absent minded aloofness, forgetfulness, “day dreaming” tendencies are due to that.

I actually performed well in school sans medication. However at the Work place is where I suffered- constant interruptions, noises, detailed paper work (weak Si/Se) are frustrating for me. I need to be able to work at my pace and not be it interrupted. It’s very difficult for me to start stop. I need to work steadily without distractions in a quiet environment and then I can concentrate just fine.

I have mixed feelings about it as well. Was on adderall for many years post education- no major side effects except ‘killed my creativity.

I very much agree that the dissonance between old instincts and modern innovation is probably involved with things like ADD. Yet in my view, the old instincts are very much a part of who we are as humans—moreso than all the particular modern systems & structures we’ve created over the past few hundred years. So I’d suggest that human societies might work toward developing a way of being that is more nurturing & organic (i.e. more satisfying to our old instincts), in a way that can understand "the holistic state of being a person is in," as Auburn said above. Modern technocratic/capitalist culture feels like it’s forever moving ahead into a Brave New World that changes every five minutes. The system is given priority over the people it is supposed to serve.

With that in mind, I agree with the gist of the idea that “society’s changed and the norm of the industrialized world is Te mentality right now.” Yet I also think another part of the picture is the ever-increasing milieu of loud, moment-to-moment information (=Pe overstimulation) people are bombarded with nowadays through internet and all sorts of other media. As I noted in my earlier post, I struggle with becoming easily distracted, not spending time productively, etc. The internet can be a prime culprit in this: so much information so easy to explore. The last thing I personally need is to have the internet with me in my pocket at all times, so I’ve managed this partly by not getting a smartphone or even a regular internet connection at home. I wonder if the modern media environment, which caters to shorter and shorter attention spans, sort of plays a role in training people to become easily bored, distracted & over time to manifest ADD-like symptoms.

I don't know quite how this fits in, but I also suspect that physical understimulation plays a role in all of this. I definitely agree that 9-5 office jobs aren’t for everyone, but as work increasingly becomes mechanized and market-rationalized it’s become harder & harder to make a good living at something like manual labor. Parents no longer even let their kids play outside or walk to school as much as they used to when I was a kid. Anyway, I personally have found that exercise has a big impact on my overall mental health, including my ability to stay focused and concentrate.

Either that (Fe) or a proper working balance of Te and Fi would precisely do the trick.

I think that it's great that you are actually trying to find real world examples of specific cultures that have both judgement oscillations.  In fact, it might be cool to find Auburn's thread about this, because it may discuss the underlying distinctions in style between Fe/Ti and Fi/Te.

My logic just came from a more basic premise of the fact that ANY function can be strongly emulated (although never perfectly replicated, I think) by its two 'counter-opposing' functions.  So I can see the qualities of Fe matched pretty darn well (especially the high qualities of Fe, such as warmth, charm, affecting others interpersonally, etc.) by combining the 'get-stuff-done' qualities of Te with the deeply values-driven qualities of Fi.  If you have specific individuals or a tightly knit team that exhibit both of these in tandem (and with the high sides of both Te and Fi), you will get essentially optimal Fe behavior.  

I am beginning to realize that on a cognitive level, you can match these oppositionals in just the right delicate balance (let's say Ne and Si), and you will find some individuals (with the Ne/Si oscillation) who may exhibit behavior that looks and feels like Se (and/or Ni) but who do not exhibit the vultology of the Se/Ni oscillation. 

I believe that this principle is highly common overall and formed the rationale for my response above.