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Heads up! This thread was primarily created for our vultology team in preparation for the upcoming practitioner program and requires a working understanding of the vultology code. But it's opened up here to the forum since I know there are some out there that wish to learn vultology more keenly as well. Also, videos load better in Chrome for me, not sure if that will help others.
The baseline for SiTe l--- is best extracted from all the samples in this post (..instead of just this one...) as they all share the same attributes. At first it looks like Joe is reading from a teleprompter, but after making sure and looking for signs of it I realized he actually isn't. He's just got a very permanently fixed Pi gaze and can recite his information from memory. What we see here is a settled, forward conductor energy. He is exceedingly eye-centric, with only very subtle tilts and sways that lack any force of delivery (unconscious Je).
Joe Flint is a news reporter and spends his days collecting facts, trends, and then chronicling that to his audience. But unlike other journalists, Flint is particularly facts-heavy in his data dumps, financially oriented, and lacks an interpersonal element. Much Like SiTe Brian Williams (who we'll get to later) he has a rhythm that spans years in the same unchanging format. We see in all this: heavy signs of Si psychology, with Te psychology as a secondary.
Now Laura Miller looks nearly identical to Joe Flint vultologically. But she reveals a lot more about the psychology of the SiTe l--- development. She mentions all the below, and I'm gonna go through them one by one:
Q1: Ideal Life?
- Doing what is personally fulfilling - Love to learn things and understand the world - Mastering Skills - Traveling the world - Being with those I love - Leaving a legacy behind, being remembered - A life that is harmonious, free of pain and mostly "pleasant"
Q2: Your Strengths?
- Greatest strength is my intellectual ability - Very logical, analytical, able to undesrstand complex things - Strong sense of fairness/justice - Very hard-working - Very reliable - Dependable - Love being intellectually stimulated - Love the beauty of the world/nature - Love good food - Just love to laugh, finding funny things
Trend A: One of the trends we see is related to conscientiousness. A "strong sense of fairness", "reliability", "dependability", "hard-working" all speak to a conductor energy. Mastering of skills is also a part of this, and she appears to use her intellect to get to those things, which brings me to the next trend:
Trend B: Logical orientation. She prizes herself as an intellectual, enjoys intellectual stimulation, analysis, etc. This is quite interesting because (as we've discussed in Discord lately) females are tilted more towards agreeableness, yet her T>F priority still shines through. However, we still see the effects of her feminine energy, and this is a key point to note. She loves being with those she cares for, helping society, caring for others and being fulfilled in that way. This is --to me-- the appropriate level of influence we might expect from the combination of SiTe + female. High-T females are always gonna be a bit of a mixture, and she reflects this well.
Trend C: Lastly is a focus on "comforts." She likes being in nature, traveling, but also just living a life that is harmonious, free of pain, and "pleasant." This is very Baggins-esque, and combines with the Min myth; the cottage fantasy. I think she presents an excellent example of what an SiTe l--- female baseline would be like, and I'm very happy she came along!
So the vultology of this one is gonna take some major explanation. What we see here is a Pi gaze just as fixed as the above SiTe l--- unseelies, and an inertia that is just impermeable. Please note that there is no reviser doubt, there is no hesitation, and there is no Ji signaling by itself. Now before I did this thread, I thought Fred Rogers, Ben Carson and Ed Witten had Fi conscious but upon looking closer they don't actually show any Ji energy signals. What we are picking up on is seeliness, and seeliness alone.
As was mentioned in the last thread, the assumption in CT was previously that "more seelie = higher Fi priority" which was actually false. Seelie/Unseelie happens to exist as a category independent of hierarchy, with TeSi's being perfectly capable of strong seelieness too. But this meant that previously, despite not showing many Ji signals, people like Fred Rogers were titled as Fi-lead when they were simply Seelie + Introverted Pi.
And we must consider that it must be possible for SiTe l--- to be seelie while not being Fi conscious. And this is precisely what that would look like. No Ji signals, but lots of seelie energy. In the above we hear the qualities of Fi in the voice and the softness of Te, but we actually see no integration of Ji for example:
There is: - no Ji Disengaging Down - no Ji Momentum Halting - no Fi Umbridled Emotional Radiation - no Fi Disarming Giddiness
Furthermore there is no individualism/identity preoccupation, and the like. The focuses of these individuals are storytelling, science & politics -- but not the self. This will become more apparent down below when we get to the real SiTe l-l-. But to give a brief review, here is Ben Carson against SiTe l-l- Mark Rylance who does show Ji signals alongside seelieness:
We see in Carson a very stead gaze, an unchanging tempo (little variability) and a forward focus or vector. There is no reviser doubt, but instead there is a surety and resolve. Now we can compare Carson's vultology to that of Rylance below:
^ Pi Eye-Drift + Ji Disengage Down + Fi Unbridled Energy
^ Pi Eye-Drift + Ji Disengage Down + Fi Unbridled Energy
Rylance breaks his eye contact forward to shrivel shyly downward and evaluate the compass momentarily. As he does this, reviser doubt enters his energy, yet he appears eye-centric still. This is different than the conductor-heavy energy we get from the above samples which have an unmoving gaze and a continual forward direction.
What we see in these men's psychologies is a level of conservatism. The two that are politicians are republicans, which again is the more conscientious orientation. Fred Rogers, like Joe Flint, Brian Williams and others... did his job for a long time: for over 30 years. In his case, narrative took hold stronger. He had a very clear Senex energy, and had the Senex's positive relationship to the Puer... in the form of a children's show. George W. Bush --which might surprise some-- is not too different from Fred Rogers and the others. After retiring as president he essentially took the cottage-route, and found himself a comfy abode where he does painting. He also made a presidential library/museum, with collectible items from his presidency to show people what it was like to be in the Oval office.
Overall, seelie SiTe's tend to want the world to be fair, pleasant, enjoyable, and harmonious. They want legacy, to build something lasting, and to also remember what has been built already. They have a playful/childish side which is into art, travel, nature, and being silly on occasion.
As expected, we see a very striking vultological pattern among these samples. The head remains eye-centric, the direction and gaze of the eyes comes first and then the head shakes and swivels come afterwards. But in order to properly differentiate this from the TeSi ll-- moving forward, here are a few side-by-side comparisons:
What we see here is a slowdown of tempo (compared to Je-lead baseline) that causes Meaux/Cameron to be a little bit viscous in their delivery than the TeSi l--- samples. Yet the direction of their Je delivery remains the same. They remain face-centric, with head nods coming from a place of rigidity and firmness. Here is a graphic to demonstrate the pattern of accentuation:
The size of the arrows indicates the strength of the gesticulations and its direction. Je-leads have very dedicated forward head nods than firmly land with a resolute "point", and secondarily they have smaller left-to-right rattles. Up-down is followed by left-right. To contrast this, below we have the SiTe ll--:
SiTe ll-- Scott Walker
SiTe ll-- Brian Williams
If you'd like, take a moment to look at these GIFs ^ and then back at the TeSi ones, and then back down here again to try to capture the qualia difference. What you'll notice is that SiTe's have a lot less up-down nods/accentuations and far more left-right accentuations. And the strength of the two vectors will be quite different. Here is a diagram roughly showing the difference:
The ratio of the arrows is inverted between the TeSi and SiTe. For SiTe the left-to-right arrow is biggest and strongest, while up-down is smaller since head nods are generally weaker and do not "land" their points very firmly. For SiTe's, up-down head movements/nods are usually a form of micro-rattling, while for TeSi's it's left-right that is usually a form of micro-rattling. Additionally, SiTe's will do far more head rolls (shoulder-to-shoulder swiveling) which is due to their loose body posture.
This is the key difference between TeSi and SiTe regardless of whether they both have the same level of energetic output. So for example, at a given moment an SiTe ll-- may be a little more "Je" than a TeSi ll-- but the Je will be channeled through the P-lead fluidity pattern shown above. So again it's not quantity of gestures that determines hierarchy, but the quality of them. I hope that makes sense. I realize it's subtle and hard to notice at first.
We also see a very strong psychological pattern in these samples which is hardly worth reiterating, but like the SiTe l--- there's a heavy involvement in politics, a conservatism and a narrativism. Something that stood out to me was that we see the narrativism clearest in Brian Williams at the end of the video when he says: "I don't know what I'd do for a living if I couldn't work in journalism. Not television; I could come off television tomorrow happily, as long as I was in the daily writing game." I felt this was an excellent little tidbit to note. There's a need to explore (Pe) but it's for the satisfaction of chronicling (Pi) the day-to-day ongoings into an understanding of the unfolding world. This frames Pi appropriately as a dynamic and living process --not one bound to a static past-- yet driven to store up what is being released by the world continually.
Once again we see the theme of politics in this one, with one subtle differences. These two seelie SiTe samples are Democratic rather than Republican. This is part of a larger pattern that is somewhat tentatively present, with others like seelie TeSi Elizabeth Warren being part of the democratic party. We've yet to make a comprehensive breakdown of politican orientation by type, but I found it interesting to note. As far as vultology goes, everything is the same as the above but with seelie energy.
Like Laura Miller, May is astute, logically-driven but also has a soft side for nature and the preservation of the planet. Her energy is clearly not seelie (she is guarded, assertive and forthright) but her agenda is driven by certain more feminine principles compared to the male counterparts. We see the same agenda in FiNe Jill Stein. Again I think this is a good example of the mixture of SiTe + female, and how it subtly shifts the baseline. Everything else is the same as the above.
At last!! Omg, Meta / Eric's type is clear to me now. Near-twin shades with laughter . This is the first time I see someone with a vultology that matches Meta so perfectly. And from there the connection to Mark Rylance can also be made. As I mentioned in the l--- post the difference here is that SiTe's with conscious Ji have a mixture of fixed-gaze with semi-Ji-disengagements down. It's never a "full halt" but more of a drift downward. There is also a coating of Fi radiating energy which causes some bashful shriveling, reviser doubt, and unbridled energy. There's a disarming femininity atypical of males, but there is a total lack of the Ji "structure" we covered in the FiNe thread. Instead, these samples are very eye-centric, governed by their gaze and carry their head behind their eyes as they swivel from ear to ear. There is a very clear viscosity to their movements, and an overall relaxation and P-lead looseness.
Like the baseline SiTe's, Eric shows fair levels of industriousness & conscientiousness, saying he "likes to work" and would love to work more if he didn't have to sleep. There is something inertial about the way he says it too, as though to him work is a rhythmic activity; a fluid or calming exercise. He also has elements of Si "comfort" seeking in how he phrases matters, by wanting more time with friends hanging out and just having a good time.
Laughter, similarly (in his other video here) shows conscientiousness and a dislike for people who whine about matters but don't do anything about it. Later he says: "I like things that combine thinking with the ability to win or achieve a goal" - which again shows conductor energy, and a logistical pragmatism characteristic of ST Deltas.
But he also shows his Ne in his answer to what most people don't know about him <-- which itself is telling, as a polar function. Often the polar is that which we consider our 'real' self but which we don't show 24/7 to the public. Deep inside Laughter has a Puer that would enjoy living in a funhouse fantasy world where amusing and reality-distorting events were commonplace. This also shows a moderate level of Ne development. I'm happy to finally have a clear picture of this type and to know how it differs from Fi-lead.
^ Ji Meticulous Hands/Fingers + Ji Eyes Disengage Down + Ji Momentum Halting
^ Ne eye-toggling + J rigidity + Ji Meticulous Fingers (but with some P fluidity)
^ Pi Eye-Drifts > Ji Disengaging Down
^ Pi Eye-Drifts > Ji Disengaging Down
As we see, for the SiTe's the Ji disengagement is done within the context of the P-lead body posture, while the FiNe's retain a rigid spine and poised vertical body alignment, with complete disengagements down. I hope this makes sense.
This is perhaps not the best example of a polarized SiTe. But then again maybe it is... Like other P-polarized types we've seen, Bill Hicks is a nonchalant personality. For those of you who know Bill Hicks, you know he's a comedian. This is also true of the yet-to-be-made thread for SiFe's l--l (like Jeff Dunham). Hicks is a comedian with a dark sense of humor and like Albert Camus, he also has a heavy flat affect. Actually, the similarities between him and Camus are plentiful, I think. Both are passive commentators on life, both have a bit of an absurdust/nihilistic bent, and yet Hicks sees humor as a healing thing for its capacity to frame reality in better light.
We see in Hicks an eye-centricity, a Pi-lead posture, but with a different kind of energy (Pe). If we compare his energy to the SiTe ll-- types, we see his energy is more zesty, spunky and tends to swivel side-to-side more in perk ups. For example in this GIF:
This is different than the sort of extroversion provided by the Je function like so:
1: Pi Remains Priority: Despite the presence of both Je and Pe, the SiTe still does not lose their Pi-lead eye-centricity, and all this energy gets diverted into more horizontal (side-to-side) trajectories.
2: Lack of J Structure: Secondly, despite the Te+Ne combo, their body is still casual and loose in how it delivers its energy, rather than being firm, rigid or calculated. This is seen best in Scott Adam's GIF but the same looseness can also be seen in Zuckerberg.
Given how we've contrasted SiTe & TeSi already, the above P-lead vultology should not be confused too much with TeSi. But this comes closer now to certain shades of NeFi. So now lastly I must try to contrast this against an NeFi with conscious Te+Ne. Here is Tim Urban as an example:
^ The key difference I can point out here is that Tim Urban has:
Native Pe Bubbling Momentum
For the NeFi l-l-, all that energy is flailing out in all directions. The hands are casual but they're also multi-directional. The body is energetic, but also restless and amped. By contrast, the SiTe still appears to carry all their movements along the same forward vector even if there's energetic spikes within that vector. So while the NeFi's hands may go up/down/left-right, and their spine may sway everywhere (other NeFi's are better examples of this than Tim Urban), the SiTe will direct a lot of energy forward to their audience directly. This is best seen in Zuckerberg's GIF above.
Also, the SiTe GIFs above are special moments of high-energy, but the Pi-lead vultology will still shine through in the majority of the video. I just selected the most amped sections on purpose, to really tease out the differences even in the extremes.
The psychological similarities are also plentiful here. Both Scott Adams and Zuckerberg are entrepreneurial (Ne+Te tends to be that way), both have a very strong stick-to-it-meter... and can grind through tasks for long stretches of time. Both are science enthusiasts, but both also enjoy experimenting with a medium of communication and/or social commentary. Both are also prolific, and have multiple interests.
Jamie Hyneman actually fits fairly well into this category too. He is science oriented, loves to experiment with Ne, but at the same time he was the more conservative and cautious of the two Mythbusters hosts and was known for his more practical approach to the show. So we have in all three of these samples a thirst for new information, for exploration, a zest for application, for business, ...but backed up with a hard work ethic and diligence. This is not the case with NeFi's who tend to struggle with the last bit.
The majority of mistypes here were TeSi, but like the FiNe thread it was still pretty messy. The range was rather chaotic/expansive before, holding contradictions. This really has been a necessary clarification process! Here are the major corrected mistypings:
Yes! Ken is TeSi! And I totally see it now... He doesn't really have eye-centricity. And his head movements are far more aligned with Je-lead than Pi-lead, as described above. He seems clearly not Si-lead now that the Deltas have all been finished. I've given this mistyping a lot of thought and I think there was an over-reliance on Si scowling + Si indented sockets. In other words, a poor job of over-focusing on anatomical features. Energetically, Ken is quite clearly extroverted and has a heavy dose of Te + Ne.
This one is less obvious but you can see the J-lead mannerisms quite clearly if you look for them. He's not eye-centric even though he's got plenty of Ne. His head rattles up/down and left/right, without swiveling or rolling as we see in the SiTe samples.
He may be either SiTe lll- or TeSi ll-l ...neither of which we have any references for atm. And the sample size is too small in those devs to properly relativize things. I need to gather a few more SiTe's before I can really say.