Recently my focus has been on finalizing the Definitive Vultology series, and on fleshing out the behavioral profiles of the 8 functions (with 1 left to go). While doing this it occurred to me that we had no profiles for the energetic quadrants, and this will become essential going forward. So this last week rather than writing the remaining Fe profile I've focused on Ji and Pe.
P.S. - With the production of the last 7 profiles, I have perhaps neglected to make more explicit what the scope and purpose of these profiles is, which has lead to some confusion regarding the functions and how they are defined in CT. These profiles are not meant to be descriptions of the core metabolism of the functions, but to be a generalized account of the statistical effects produced by it at the level of end behaviors. The lack of resonance with certain details is to be expected as they are intentionally written to be as pure a depiction as possible of the function by itself and not contained within a hierarchy, meaning few people will relate to it in full, perhaps unless they are l---.
No one behavior listed here is necessarily emergent from the function in a 1:1 ratio, nor a suitable marker on its own for the confirmation/denial of a function in a person. That task would be better designated to vultology and metabolism. Nonetheless, please let me know your thoughts on this profile, and share any feedback you have on how it may be improved to better represent the general expression of the function. Thank you all.
These EQ profiles are extremely helpful! I feel like they clarify the fundamental shape of each energetic quadrant underneath all the particular colour that’s added by the functions’ oppositional pairings (S,N,T,F). I’m looking forward to seeing the Pi one!
Maybe this is obvious, but one thing interesting about Ji & Pe is that they are diametric opposites. Same thing with Pi & Je. I guess this is probably why they go together in a cognitive heirarchy. Ji and Je are too close together to function as near-equals: when one is dominant, it takes up most of the cognitive real estate on that side of the map, making the other much less facile and more vulnerable to suppression. So in a sense, the reason the auxiliary function is from the opposite EQ is because it's least crowded out by the dominant function. (hope this makes sense).
I actually relate to the Ji profile more than I thought I would, and definitely moreso than I related to the dedicated Ti profile. In this way, I think this generic EQ profile has helped me to understand Ti much more clearly than I did before.
This profile implies that Ji as a whole (i.e. including Ti) is decidedly not dispassionate in all aspects of its operation. Rather, it seems quite attached to things like its own purity, dignity, self-identity, commitment to truth. Its melancholy is because it’s unable to attain those things. So it seems like Ti—as a Ji function—is actually kindled by a sort of passion for embodying these “noble virtues,” but feels that if it wants to do this authentically it cannot let its own caprices interfere with determining how to get there. It’s not impelled by dispassion and nor is dispassion necessarily its end-goal, but its operation impels it to journey through dispassion.
I think this also explains why I find Ji to be sort of a drain at times. During my teenage years, I actually very much fetishized these Ji self-purification qualities. I was idealistic, self-absorbed and “misunderstood.” But as my Ti developed, it started pulling me into places where I didn’t want to go—I felt like I had no control over it. At the time I had a particular set of worldviews/values/concepts that I clung to, and I felt like I couldn’t keep my Ti from picking away at these. So I think the strain of Ti was because I could neither ignore its persistent prodding nor detach myself from my personal beliefs. This is the main thing I’ve found taxing about Ti—using the function itself doesn’t usually seem like a strain. Looking back, I think Ti was an important catalyst for change, and that a lot of the conceptual structures I clung to as an adolescent were in need of picking apart. But it was unpleasant at the time.
Although I still occasionally have these sort of issues with my Ji, over time I feel I’ve gradually been able to recalibrate or perhaps "purify" it. I would say my “first principles” nowadays are something along the lines of “purify by getting rid of beliefs and ideas that don’t help me to exist as a cohesive, integrated person.” Absolute, philosophical truth is an abstract verbal/mental construct—nowhere near as real as my actual experience as an embodied being who is interacting with a similarly embodied world.
From this vantage point, it’s easier for me to put to rest abstruse questions like free will vs. determinism (the topic of a thread on this forum a month or two ago). I’m not actually terribly familiar with formal philosophy, but for the purposes of my Ji, I feel satisfied that I don't to be. The important thing is that the internal sense of having free will is one of the most basic traits of how I experience life. If I were to deny its reality, I would be stifling my acknowledgment of my own agency and life-experience, which could conceivably take away from my ability to function as a whole individual. Consequently, my embrace of a pristine, deterministic solution to a purely conceptual problem might actually subtract from my ability to address actual, stone-and-blood problems within the world. But in the way my Ji would now see things, truly purifying myself involves choosing to believe in things like free will because they make me more whole, integrated and truly aligned with my beliefs. (and anyway, nobody ever definitively solves this kind of philosophical problem). In this way, I’ve come to see internal purity as inseparably tied to the kind of role I play in the external world.
Post by supahprotist on Nov 7, 2018 13:02:27 GMT -5
Ji: Compass Function
I've often remarked to myself and others that I don't have any beliefs or ideals. Are ideals in this case examples of rules or principles, that govern a person's action? If so, I'm not sure how much I relate to the concept of ideals per se. What I do see examples of in my own behavior, is the tendency to avoid behaving in a way that produces needless discomfort for myself or others. This is not the manifestation of any specific rule I have about how I conduct myself, it's more of a simple matter of distaste. Is this an example of an implicit ideal? Perhaps, the behaviors that I'm aware of are just examples of implicit ideals in action. However, I don't know if I'd go so far to call them ideals, since an ideal to me is more of a vision or standard that someone explicitly sets for themselves. I never said to myself, "I should be careful not to cause unnecessary discomfort for myself or others" and set that as a rule to live by, It just simply makes me uncomfortable to cause other people discomfort. Also, when it comes to my own experiences with indecision and hesitation, it's never been explicitly because I've explicitly thought that "I cannot act because none of these options are acceptable" or anything like that, once again, it's been the result of some internal sense, this time of uncertainty. I guess my main point for this first bit is that, if I do have ideals I definitely have no explicitly experience of them. Is this inconsistent with having Ti as a conscious function?
Ji: Identity & Individualism
I definitely don't feel as thought my "identity" in the conventional sense is bound by my upbringing or culture, but I also am not aware of any core standards or aspirations. Standards are close to ideals, but to reiterate, I don't have the experience of "should or shouldn't" like thoughts. As far as aspirations go, these are especially hard for me to access. A huge problem I'm facing right now is a lack of aspirational motivation. I don't know what my ideal is so I'm stagnating. Is the composition of the self always compared to some maximal beauty? If so, is the ideal self defined as the maximal beauty or is the current self defined relative to the maximal beauty, or both?
Ji: Idealism
Even as I'm writing this post, I'm doing it based on a sense of resonance or what feels right. Should I discuss my confusions or the stuff I have a good idea about. As I do this, there is no sense of standard or ideal set of rules that I'm referencing in order to decide what to do. Once again, it's just an internal sense of congruence or misalignment. Maybe I'm measuring my actions against a less conscious Ji function. I understand that by "fight", you mean argue as opposed to actually enact, when discussing utopian visions. It's like saying this is how things should be as opposed to making things as they should be. All that being said, once again, I'm not aware of any ideal visions I have for myself or others. I'm not aware of how the I or the world should be. I can have moments when I evaluate a part of a theory based on how I think I coherent theory should be, but this seems to fall short of the type of idealism that is described in the profile.
Ji: Nobility & Conscience
I think I understand the emergence of feelings of low self esteem that arise from comparing oneself or society to a higher ideal, but once again I don't see myself doing this. I don't have a sense of how things should be, even as I'm writing this post, I'm not really remarking on how the post should be improved, as much as I am commenting on how it compares with my own experiences.
Ji: Pickiness & Perfectionism
I can be extremely perfectionistic in the production of my own creative content. This might be the result of a misalignment with some unconscious ideal. When I try to write lyrics, I get caught up on trying to make the words sound good enough and that can prevent me from actually producing the end product. My resonance with this part of the profile may be the result of my Pe-Ji oscillation being more active than my Je-Ji oscillation.
Humorism: Melancholy
I don't think I have an internal ideal of how things should be in general, for me, idealism comes up situationally. I really don't think I have a conception of of a perfect reality that I measure all my experiences against.
Archetype: Prince/Princess
"In a practical sense this manifests as Ji types being picky about love and romance, often vetoing prospective partners based on some perceived incompatibility either in ideology or temperament." - Pretty much how I constantly evaluate in those situations. However, I once again don't see in myself any type of "Utopian Ideology".
I don't have a sense of how things should be, even as I'm writing this post, I'm not really remarking on how the post should be improved, as much as I am commenting on how it compares with my own experiences.
It's very insightful, thank you.
You're one of the most Ji people I know, so this is great to compare against. You're very Ji but in very specific vectors.
In your case supahprotist I see Ji come out in the style of narcissus, but intellectually
there is still an obsessive self-focus in questions such as:
"What do I really believe?"
"Am I really in the right?"
"Am I making an error?"
"Oh I don't like that answer, it's unsatisfactory, I want a better one"
"This doesn't make enough sense"
"My understanding isn't perfect"
~~~~~
So the focus here is not so much in the building of ideals, but in the checking of the compass. The essential quality is the pinging; where is north. I should note that Ji by itself doesn't always have to build paradigms, it can exist simply as the error-correction mechanism, or like a gyroscope. Indeed, the compass carries no dogma within it, or any necessary content. The crystallization of idea-castles are an emergent effect.
To put it metaphorically, the "castle" (paradigm/ideology) is a common byproduct of the compass, but often in some conjunction with other processes. For example it takes precedent (Pi) to hold onto context, and it takes generative ability (Pe) to build up ideas. Ji can be seen more as an "editor". It edits/proof-reads the material provided by the other processes, and makes sure it's aligned... or it makes a fuss when it's not.
Indeed, the compass carries no dogma within it, or any necessary content
How can the compass be a compass, i.e. distinguish what is north versus not-north, if it has no content? Even pure mathematical logic relies on its axioms and deduction rules to put things into different boxes, that which follows from them and that which doesn't. Unless you think axioms (unconscious perhaps) don't count as content. Maybe you can say it's my Fe or my Ni, but I very much think I am proceeding from certain rules and principles (not at all articulated clearly perhaps) when I say, this is not quite right.
It seems to me you really can't do anything, not even perceive, without some content or assumptions. You can't get anything off the ground that way.
"Not *how* the world is, is the mystical, but *that* it is." - Wittgenstein
Indeed, the compass carries no dogma within it, or any necessary content
How can the compass be a compass, i.e. distinguish what is north versus not-north, if it has no content? Even pure mathematical logic relies on its axioms and deduction rules to put things into different boxes, that which follows from them and that which doesn't. Unless you think axioms (unconscious perhaps) don't count as content. Maybe you can say it's my Fe or my Ni, but I very much think I am proceeding from certain rules and principles (not at all articulated clearly perhaps) when I say, this is not quite right.
It seems to me you really can't do anything, not even perceive, without some content or assumptions. You can't get anything off the ground that way.
I agree, faeruss. It's impossible to judge anything without a standard. I think introverts have a hard time seeing the things they take for granted.
“If every tiny flower wanted to be a rose, spring would lose its loveliness.”
but the first seed of an ideology is there in the form of an inner 'standard', i agree.
not all Ji's build a castle (an explicitly articulated paradigm or belief-system), but the ability to determine north from not-north does not require them to have it known explicitly. i can see how that 'felt-sense' might count as content, although i wonder what we would call it instead.
'content' to me implies some conclusion, fact, or belief. whereas i'm not sure Ji necessarily holds beliefs 'a priori', as it participates in the arrival of beliefs. and every Ji comes to slightly different beliefs/ideals. so the existing 'a priori' element is not made of conclusions, but of a manner of processing that leads to conclusions. i wonder if that makes sense..? what do you guys think? what would we call that? maybe we can frame it better somehow...
I would make a distinction between the user of the function and the function itself. So when I was saying that Ji needs content, I mean for its operation as a function. The user might not think they believe in any content, but that's separate issue. Even skeptical and solipsistic Ti-leads who doubt everything have the belief that "things should be justified properly if they are to be believed", though they might not think they believe it. They certainly act as if they believe things.
The fact that explicit articulation is more in the realm of Je can explain this "axiom blindness", as has been called on Discord by some users.
"Not *how* the world is, is the mystical, but *that* it is." - Wittgenstein
Post by supahprotist on Nov 9, 2018 11:10:37 GMT -5
Auburn, I'd say the that the core encapsulation of my overarching thought process is essentially the question "Is it right?" This question can apply to either actions or thoughts.
Another observation I just made was as I was looking for the correct word to complete my description, I had internal sense of alignment or misalignment with what I was trying to express. Perhaps this is an example of Ti. For me the experience was a sense of a word's congruence or incongruence with something that's difficult to describe. It's really a sense of a fit or maybe the "==" logical operator. With a good fit being "right" and a bad fit being "wrong". Its like, "Is x true with respect to y?"
This internal sense of alignment or misalignment may be what Ji is at its core. When I doubt myself, it's due to a feeling of misalignment between a thought and what is true. When I hesitate before action its because there's a sense that I'm not acting based on what I think is true. "X either does or does not follow from Y." In my case I can perceive near constant misalignment between what I think or do and an unvoiced ideal. I don't know what the right thought is or the right action is, all I know is that what I'm doing isn't it.
Finally, I wouldn't say that my Ji is approaching any type of belief through any sort of "process". I've already eliminated any core beliefs I used to have, and nothing's left. I would say Ji is more of a purifier, as mentioned earlier, and less of an active constructor. Maybe that's the light and dark sides of Ji, one purifies and the other builds? In any case, I'm stuck purifying. I'm not sure that Ji needs a content in order to operate. From my experience it needs something to evaluate and a true reality to evaluate it against.
Post by Septimus Rosa Chalier on Nov 9, 2018 15:31:16 GMT -5
faeruss, maybe we can perceive the world without initial content, but can't without initial structures.
The problem lay probably in the fact that the theoretical isolation of a function doesn't make any practical sense. Ji couldn't work without a minimal sensorial experience of the world. The function in itself is probably « empty »; it's only a structure. Then a content is added by the mean of perception. Ji categorize and organize contents.
I guess « Idealism » in the sense of an « ideal vision », is a mixture of Ji et Je. But « idealism » in the (approximate) sense of an « abstraction from contingencies » (divisions and gatherings of things under intemporal concepts or laws) could describe Ji. ..
"The function in itself is probably "empty", it's only a structure."
That doesn't make sense to me. The fact that there is a structure means there is a content, even if implicit. Otherwise it wouldn't be this structure as opposed to this other one. Something empty cannot do anything, as far as I see it. The structure carries with it a bunch of assumptions.
"Not *how* the world is, is the mystical, but *that* it is." - Wittgenstein
"The function in itself is probably "empty", it's only a structure."
That doesn't make sense to me. The fact that there is a structure means there is a content, even if implicit. Otherwise it wouldn't be this structure as opposed to this other one. Something empty cannot do anything, as far as I see it. The structure carries with it a bunch of assumptions.
In addition, Jung did not think any Ji or Pi functions were empty. Maybe something else is meant by this term empty but as things stand, it cannot be accurate.
“If every tiny flower wanted to be a rose, spring would lose its loveliness.”
Post by Septimus Rosa Chalier on Nov 12, 2018 15:28:24 GMT -5
faeruss , @aqua, my goal was to distinguish contents from processes and, consequently, functions from materials they process.
I did not spend enough time on this topic to wave my analysis in the wind like a banner, but...
By "structure" I mean "a way of processing informations". And by "information" I mean : "every content (posterior to the structure) that will be treated by it".
You could say: "a structure is axiomatic". You would be right, in a sense. 'cause it's the framework - anterior to every axiom you consciously define - that will allow the constitution of axiomatic truths. It's like a "wiring of the mind", if you prefer.
But then, there is a difference between an axiomatic content and an axiomatic structure. The first is a "pedestal" and the second an "envelope". The first "supports", the second "surrounds". The axiomatic content will constitue a base for new understandings and derived contents, but will not define the way you process things and give form to it.