Post by Auburn on Nov 30, 2018 22:52:59 GMT -5
Hrafn - I'm glad someone decided to call out that paragraph! ..as it's an idea I've been trying to elaborate on more fully.
I agree with your qualifiers. And I'll see if I can flesh this idea out a little from my end too (with your notes taken in).
Fe & its tether to social context
Being socially unwaware or unresponsive (i.e. aspie) is not something Fe experiences unless it's just not working period. Fe always feels the 'tracking' of the dynamics, even if it chooses to not yield to them (i.e. directive).
Oppositely, Fi by default, and even in a healthy state, exists in an off-beat modality where it doesn't dynamically track the environment, but usually it can still 'register' the static meaning of any one event or reaction people have. They're not stitched together into a seamless causal flow (Je), but Fi can be aware of each object's relation to their own inner self or to an inner source (Ji). Since Ji evaluates each object to itself, one by one, then it executes an extra step (in collaboration with Je) in order to join together multiple static evaluations into a comprehension of what is happening more broadly/socially. Using Fi+Te to 'understand' F-E territory.
Yes, and this extends more broadly into an Fe's whole philosophical narrative and phenomenology. You're right that it's not necessarily contingent on the physical presence of a person, since if Fe is active then life itself is a sufficient spectator. It can feel as though this Fe is "in relation" to life in general, or to God, and the Fe dynamic is woven into all activities. For example, "I want to be a good person" as an abstraction of the mind also exists as a kind of imagined objective ideal (or eye) through which all actions are measured or witnessed. It can be tempting to think of this as an inner compass but it's not; it's outside-in. I can feel it, at least for myself.
I think Fe users can tend to submit themselves to a sort of invisible "superego" (to borrow a Freudian term) that is at once a hybrid of their own ethical expectations, and that of what they perceive/anticipate the collective social response to be. So Fe-shame can be felt even for doing things nobody saw, because this superego still saw it, as an act of the universe. As an act of 'causality' (Je) in general. One never really escapes the pressure of social responsibility, or rather... the responsibility to be an ethical agent in the world. In the Fe mythos, God is omniscient.
I agree with your qualifiers. And I'll see if I can flesh this idea out a little from my end too (with your notes taken in).
Fe & its tether to social context
Being socially unwaware or unresponsive (i.e. aspie) is not something Fe experiences unless it's just not working period. Fe always feels the 'tracking' of the dynamics, even if it chooses to not yield to them (i.e. directive).
Oppositely, Fi by default, and even in a healthy state, exists in an off-beat modality where it doesn't dynamically track the environment, but usually it can still 'register' the static meaning of any one event or reaction people have. They're not stitched together into a seamless causal flow (Je), but Fi can be aware of each object's relation to their own inner self or to an inner source (Ji). Since Ji evaluates each object to itself, one by one, then it executes an extra step (in collaboration with Je) in order to join together multiple static evaluations into a comprehension of what is happening more broadly/socially. Using Fi+Te to 'understand' F-E territory.
However, if Fi is not receptive to the energies of others (i.e. it has closed off the 'channel' to its inner source) then it may only be able to analyze itself in a static way, or not even that (re: alexithymia). This leaves only Te to do the analysis of dynamic movements in the environment, which will be very mechanical and thus lead to aspie/autistic reaction methods. Keeping an open channel to the world, and a healthy personal relationship to their Fi, allows for the simulation of FE dynamic tracking but absent of that effort, the default is a segregation of inner affect and collective social dynamism.
--Secondly, my understanding of Fe is that it would tend to see any situation in its environment in terms of its "social dynamics." In other words, social dynamics are not limited to human beings:
*The most obvious example of this is in human-animal relations. I'd clearly have a very different emotional response to a dog who obeyed me, was affectionate, etc., than to one who was aggressive and stand-offish. A dog isn't human, but it's clearly still a "person" in the sense that it engages Fe.
*The most obvious example of this is in human-animal relations. I'd clearly have a very different emotional response to a dog who obeyed me, was affectionate, etc., than to one who was aggressive and stand-offish. A dog isn't human, but it's clearly still a "person" in the sense that it engages Fe.
Yes, and this extends more broadly into an Fe's whole philosophical narrative and phenomenology. You're right that it's not necessarily contingent on the physical presence of a person, since if Fe is active then life itself is a sufficient spectator. It can feel as though this Fe is "in relation" to life in general, or to God, and the Fe dynamic is woven into all activities. For example, "I want to be a good person" as an abstraction of the mind also exists as a kind of imagined objective ideal (or eye) through which all actions are measured or witnessed. It can be tempting to think of this as an inner compass but it's not; it's outside-in. I can feel it, at least for myself.
I think Fe users can tend to submit themselves to a sort of invisible "superego" (to borrow a Freudian term) that is at once a hybrid of their own ethical expectations, and that of what they perceive/anticipate the collective social response to be. So Fe-shame can be felt even for doing things nobody saw, because this superego still saw it, as an act of the universe. As an act of 'causality' (Je) in general. One never really escapes the pressure of social responsibility, or rather... the responsibility to be an ethical agent in the world. In the Fe mythos, God is omniscient.