Post by teatime on Jan 6, 2019 5:55:35 GMT -5
I tried to model a quadra or type the only way a linguistics nerd knows how - with trees. And sadly with the only program I know how to use - MS Paint.
The point here is to model the constraints of the functions we can use. You get a P axis and a J axis. And on that J axis, you get a single F function. This is a model of any possible quadra or type, so the axes are unspecified. I was undecided between N and S for a long time on the P axis, so I just wrote x as a placeholder. Originally, I had "m" (meaning) - to be symmetric - on both axes, thinking perhaps F and N supplied meaning, but I have reservations about N being the place of meaning. (Auburn had a great point that T stands out because the brain is notoriously inhibitory, but in my naivete, I suspect maybe only Fi is inhibited - to become Ti - and the affect instead surfaces more abstractly onto Je, becoming Fe. This opposed to Te being inhibited *F as well.).
I'm actually very cautious about making spurious correlations with linguistics, but it's clear that the structure for language evolved from deeper cognitive schemas. It feels a bit premature beginning a thread when my thoughts (moreover references) are so scattered, but what I'd like to do is weave together the claims I've made and see if my current understanding holds. My current understanding of both P and J axes is that they deal with subject-object relations - which we've all discussed in detail - and also predicate-argument structure.
Pe - sees
Ji - compass
Pi - map
Je - drives
You need all those elements just to build a simple bot of neural networks. The Theta System of linguistics can be thought of as an predicate-argument (P/A) structure at the interface, much like some of us claim the P axis is between the outer world and self. The J asix, in my opinion, seems quite similar, and not because I assume the axes to be parallel. This is first and foremost my understanding just from listening and watching, and secondly it seems to be echoes in literature (I just discovered!), "The main difference between the logical/linguistic and the perceptual P/A structures is that the latter is more elementary"
(http://kodu.ut.ee/~el/pubs/luuk%20-%20nvpa%20(lingua%202009).pdf).
There are things I've said on Discord that aren't unpacked and somewhere I want to put it together as a unified whole, including things others have said.
- Arrangement/ranking of conceptual primitives
- SeNi egocentric, NeSi allocentric (we all do both)
- Se self embedded in the frame
- P axis as early tracings of J
- SeNi semantic, NeSi syntactic (Jelle)
Se particularly seems like a kind of direct interface, whereas Ne has a buffer.
OMG, my J sucks! I guess before I get into all of the above, I'll start next with what I think JCF are. Then I'll use music to show the way things are grouped perceptually by P. Since I wasn't sure how to structure all this, entry-by-entry seems good.
The point here is to model the constraints of the functions we can use. You get a P axis and a J axis. And on that J axis, you get a single F function. This is a model of any possible quadra or type, so the axes are unspecified. I was undecided between N and S for a long time on the P axis, so I just wrote x as a placeholder. Originally, I had "m" (meaning) - to be symmetric - on both axes, thinking perhaps F and N supplied meaning, but I have reservations about N being the place of meaning. (Auburn had a great point that T stands out because the brain is notoriously inhibitory, but in my naivete, I suspect maybe only Fi is inhibited - to become Ti - and the affect instead surfaces more abstractly onto Je, becoming Fe. This opposed to Te being inhibited *F as well.).
I'm actually very cautious about making spurious correlations with linguistics, but it's clear that the structure for language evolved from deeper cognitive schemas. It feels a bit premature beginning a thread when my thoughts (moreover references) are so scattered, but what I'd like to do is weave together the claims I've made and see if my current understanding holds. My current understanding of both P and J axes is that they deal with subject-object relations - which we've all discussed in detail - and also predicate-argument structure.
Pe - sees
Ji - compass
Pi - map
Je - drives
You need all those elements just to build a simple bot of neural networks. The Theta System of linguistics can be thought of as an predicate-argument (P/A) structure at the interface, much like some of us claim the P axis is between the outer world and self. The J asix, in my opinion, seems quite similar, and not because I assume the axes to be parallel. This is first and foremost my understanding just from listening and watching, and secondly it seems to be echoes in literature (I just discovered!), "The main difference between the logical/linguistic and the perceptual P/A structures is that the latter is more elementary"
(http://kodu.ut.ee/~el/pubs/luuk%20-%20nvpa%20(lingua%202009).pdf).
There are things I've said on Discord that aren't unpacked and somewhere I want to put it together as a unified whole, including things others have said.
- Arrangement/ranking of conceptual primitives
- SeNi egocentric, NeSi allocentric (we all do both)
- Se self embedded in the frame
- P axis as early tracings of J
- SeNi semantic, NeSi syntactic (Jelle)
Se particularly seems like a kind of direct interface, whereas Ne has a buffer.
OMG, my J sucks! I guess before I get into all of the above, I'll start next with what I think JCF are. Then I'll use music to show the way things are grouped perceptually by P. Since I wasn't sure how to structure all this, entry-by-entry seems good.