Post by chaoticbrain on Jul 7, 2013 13:58:31 GMT -5
So one of the reasons in MBTI I thought I was INTP rather than ENTP was that my thinking is very slow and I read on forums for ENTPs it's much quicker. Like for example when playing a strategy game an ENTP would quickly know what to do, where as an INTP would have to spend a lot of time contemplating.
It seems unlikely this is the case now though. Is this actually a difference in Ti vs Te ? Or is it a trait of introverts vs extroverts ?
Are you NeTi's on this forum quick ?
Last Edit: Jul 7, 2013 14:01:18 GMT -5 by chaoticbrain
sorry, i can't write too much today, wait for some deepen post in the future from me briefly: If i have to create an opinion i am very slow If i'm arguing i can be slow, not always If i have to recall informations i can be really rapid
Good question! I'm most likely not NeTi (although anything's possible), but I figure getting as many perspectives as possible couldn't hurt. I don't yet have official confirmation on whether I use Te or Ti, so I want to post this now, free of bias, to add to the eventual data. Hope this helps, not sure all of it relates to your question, but I'll be curious to see if there is any correlation, as far as we can tell from a small sample, as it would make sense for there to be some sort of relation.
I am a quick thinker. I can work through things rapidly while thinking, speaking or writing and sometimes know how to solve a problem just by looking at it. In class, I often finish the proofs before the teacher does and know where a subject is leading. I'm generally one of the first to pick up new material, although it won't stick unless I drill it a few times and otherwise I'll have to work through it again, sometimes many times if I don't put the effort in. I arrive at opinions quickly and often rapidly run through four or five hypotheses, sometimes out loud and sometimes in my head, depending on the situation. While sometimes it takes me a few tries to solve a problem, I typically take a break and come back and start fresh and eventually end up heading down the right path. I think of this as more Ne than either T function, personally, although it may also be just the way my brain works, unrelated to functions. I can be a bit rash in my conclusions, and tend towards carelessness, but if a question grabs me, I'll continue playing with it in my head and may later change my mind in face of new reasoning or data. I'm typically one of the first to finish an exam, for instance, but one of the last to leave, as I have to do everything twice to check my work. While, particularly under pressure, I generally have the right process, I am prone to missing details, probably because I am trying to go so quickly. I often don't even remember taking tests, as the part of my reasoning outside my conscious control is at the fore while I am working under pressure and I am solely focused on the task at hand.
Post by chaoticbrain on Jul 8, 2013 19:01:00 GMT -5
Yes I'm curious about all types, but a lot of what you said seems more like it could be a fast/hard working or concentration. How quick is your thinking in the things heron was talking about like forming an opinion or debating ?
I'm thinking NeFi could actually be more in line with the quick witty ENTP stereotype, I personally know one example of someone like that, but I'd need to hear from more of them.
Oh, sorry! I think I misread the question. ^_^ And I could see that. Is this what you need or is there anything else?
It depends on the importance of the decision and the context. I'll form an initial opinion fairly quickly, particularly in debates where I'm more focused on proving my point than refining it. I construct arguments quickly, although they are not always the best.
When making personal choices, I also form an initial opinion quickly, but my overall decision making process is very slow, as this opinion changes and I see other sides to the issue.
I can memorize information quickly, but only retain the facts that interest me and take a while to recall information that's gone unused for a long time.
I dunno. I am a Te user and super quick in strategy games. The answers and paths bubble up before I actually stop to analyze. It's like the pieces are there still and something inside myself all of a sudden without conscious control see them move floating in the air like magic. Does it have to do with my functions? i would like to know. Do gammas relate to it? Might has to do with Te usage + Ni usage. Or not. I wish I had given a contribution to this thread but maybe I did.
I was wondering if it is because FiSes are TeNis upside down... all about strategy. Like SeTis do at ease things that NiFes also do when the occasion asks an SeTi to use that side of them... the same oscillation wheels.
Post by chaoticbrain on Jul 8, 2013 20:33:49 GMT -5
Ya I think Ni could be the difference in strategy games. I know that when I'm playing a strategy game any time something unexpected happens I kind of panic because I have no clue what to do, that I presume is different for Ni users.
i think that a subjective opinion about ones own thinking speed is pretty hard to judge. given that we only know of our own speed. and comparing to others through appearances can be misleading.
for me coming up with a decision or opinion is quick so long as i am given enough information to work with. i will withhold my opinion if i feel there isn't enough to comfortably make any sort of opinion on. and the opinion or decision itself is never truly final. i am always open to changing my opinion if i am given facts that alter things and nothing i say should be treated as final. I'm sure that pisses some people off but the mind changes quickly. so i tend to hold an opinion that most practically fits the facts as they appear, always remaining dynamic. i like having a workable practical solution to any problem as soon as i need it. i tend to not worry about it until it is necessary to do something and then i become very decisive. on an off note i dislike it when people attach their ego to their ideas. if an idea or fact is misplaced i feel compelled to as gently as i can correct it. call me crazy but i never know if that wrong thought might get you mauled by a bear or something and I'd rather not have that on my conscious. occasionally people end up treating this as a personal attack, when it is just an idea or a thought. they are meant to be entertained or potentially used but it isn't meant to define you as a person.
as far as debating is concerned, i cant think of too many times where i actually have had to debate. but i can typically instantly see when someone has a misconception about a topic, based on language used and what not. and my debates stick to facts that i can easily corroborate with a simple Google search. i don't use conjecture in these sorts of affairs. nor do i argue for things that i am not certain of. so the other person is quickly proven incorrect if they are and if they aren't than there wouldn't be a debate in the first place. i would have much more trouble dealing with an ethical debate because my argument would probably amount to "but come on, man! that's just wrong!" so my battles are much more easily won when i stick to factual logic based on my store of knowledge. for example i could complain that capitalism is dog eat dog bullshit that is utterly barbaric because that is how i feel. but it's much more effective for me to point out how it's a model that simply doesn't work. and is doomed to failure because the facts state that it is simply unsustainable. facts that i can backup with 20 minutes of Internet searching for appropriate sources.
in conversations my thinking is immediate but i imagine that's completely normal. i just get an impression of what i think than i say it outloud. my wit depends on my mood but it's there when i need it.
if i am put under pressure to read something and then do something with that i tend to think a bit slow. it's a bit of a Te stereotype but i do actually think better outloud. when i am pressured it makes thinking inside of my head more difficult especially reading and then thinking about it. even when i am not pressured though i will mumble the odd thought out loud if i don't think anyone can hear me. and at home especially i will think out loud. maybe 1/3 to half of the time in my room anyway. and when i'm doing my serious thinking i get my whole body involved pacing in a circuit around my house thinking out loud. it makes my thoughts go very quickly and strongly. i do much better hearing things than reading them as well, things spoken in lectures or conversations stick with me much better than words in text books. but finding something i personally find interesting in a book or the Internet sticks. but more importantly the impression of where it came from. again i wont bring out information as fact that i cannot confirm.
as far as watching comedy and the like i often laugh at least half a second before other people around me because by that point I've either figured out the joke and found it funny or have thought of a different ending to that joke that was equally funny. i think that may be Ne more than anything though.
i tend to go through math problems on the slow side but learning things directly related to science much faster. and specifically for math i tend to perform better in the problem solving side of things but fall a bit behind in the technical skills due to lack of drive to learn the rules and formulas. in class i simultaneously contribute the most questions and discussions related to the material while barely studying myself (and scolding myself for laziness all the while).
anyway i don't know if this will help but honestly I've never felt like a quick thinker so it's hard to say. oh on another note it takes me forever to write texts and these forum posts. but if i were to talk it out in a conversation it would have been much quicker. this kind of thing probably just comes down to the ways that you think most efficiently rather than some kind of over arching speed to your thinking.
But chaoticbrain, it's funny that I find it more entertaning/fulfilling to use my strategic thinking in F situations rather than playing strategy games (not my favortie hobby for sure hehea). Like, acquaintance/ friends seek me for advice and support when going through a difficult situation and then I naturally become extremely rational strategic, seeing (like those pieces I mentioned moving in the air) all the outcomes that all possible moves/actions/reactions would result and help the person think with clarity, offering them an organizational framework that calm them down... by providing logical organization, clarity they then kinda 'know' what each move would be likely to bring as a result and then find the best solution and sense of relief. Maybe that's the difference in not being TeNi... I tend more to see myself 'being TeNi' in relational contexts (in which I use these functions with the coat of Fi) more often than playing strategy games. Hehe. The other situation feeds my Fi... Seeing people calmer and relieved makes me feel (Fi) good (a selfish reason? Yes. Too. Haha)
Last Edit: Jul 8, 2013 21:21:14 GMT -5 by Deleted: Edit freak/ precision
Ya I think Ni could be the difference in strategy games. I know that when I'm playing a strategy game any time something unexpected happens I kind of panic because I have no clue what to do, that I presume is different for Ni users.
yeah I'm the same way i bet Ni is infinitely better at that kind of strategy. my Ne-lead compels me to play in the way that is most fun and ridiculous to me while at the same time leaving me with not a clue as to what is going to happen next, yay for spontaneity boo for strategical thought.
that sounds exactly right Morsecode when the mood hits you to play one of those games you likely switch to TeNi as you said and that can explain what you described. i have definitely never experienced what you have mentioned. the combination of Te and Ni must contribute a lot to strategic thinking. with my Ne-Te combination i am much better at thinking on my feet and acting in the moment than working out any steps ahead. foresight is not my strong suit. i wonder how Ti-Ni work together and Ti-Ne for that matter.
But chaoticbrain, it's funny that I find it more entertaning/fulfilling to use my strategic thinking on F situations rather than playing strategy games (not my favortie hobby for sure hehea). Like, acquaintances friends seek me for advice and support when going through a difficult situation and then I naturally become an extremly rational strategic person seeing (like pieces moving in the air) all the outcomes that all possible moves/action would result and help the person think with clarity, offering them an organization framework that calm them down... by providing logical organization and clarity. Maybe that's the difference for not being TeNi... I tend more to see myself in relational contexts in which I use my TeNi side with the coat of Fi more often than playing strategy games.
maybe it's mostly the inner most wheel oscillating more in those situations because being an Fi lead you would be bound to trust it more. so you're effectively getting more use out of Ni as you cycle your perception functions trying to understand the situation while mostly judging it with Fi and using Te a bit more sparingly in those situations.
i do a similar thing when someone talks to me about business actually. i don't know a lot about business and have only had this happen a few times. but when i'm asked i act completely differently, i imagine like an SiTe would searching through all of the information that i know of and very dryly going over all of the Te details of the plan but only advising so as far as to not have the person forget an important point and giving pretty unimaginative but otherwise decent advise. it's very different from my normal mode of operating, very serious and determined. i suppose one of the bigger differences too is that i become really conservative about my ideas, only giving the most pertinant.
Post by chaoticbrain on Jul 8, 2013 21:30:44 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I'm NeTi or SiFe, but certainly for me Ne + Ti is quite prone to delusional thinking. I think erifrail has commented on it in the past that.
I can have some grand theory going on in my head for hours just find out in reality it makes no sense whatsoever. Of course sometimes my ideas are actually good but I would say less often than Te types.
Might just be a trait of Ne leads I'm not sure.
Last Edit: Jul 8, 2013 21:31:43 GMT -5 by chaoticbrain