By the way, my friends and jungian colleagues don't believe me when I now say I am FiSe. I believe it is because I am a weird case of messed up functions or well-developed functions.. i dunno. They see too much N use(to be third process) and too much T use (to be inferior function - they don't know the term 'polar'). That's one of the reasons why I believe CT is revolutionary... it goes beyond jungian and mbti and socionics' habit of considering everybody as one-dimensional. My colleagues of profession and some friends who are into this subject see me as Ni-dom (some with F as second process and some with T as second process). Yesteday I even decided to never open my mouth again to tell people my type... since it brings confusion... they must get ct classes.
edit: I recall vividly when I read with a long-term (6 years together) friend (NeFi) marie louis von-franz description's (which is precisely entirely jungian-based) of Fi-doms and I neutraly asked him if he saw me there... And he was like 'No way... Not at all!'. I did the same with my mom, and her reaction was the same 'No. You are not this.'
Last Edit: May 25, 2013 23:54:34 GMT -5 by Deleted
starlit7 - in that scenario, other people may know morescode and say that she does fit the FiSe psychology. So how would you resolve that? Would you take a "majority rules" approach and say that a person's type is whatever the majority sees them as? Is type nothing more than collective opinion based on manifested traits?
Hi Auburn-I suppose that would depend on what the intent to type was in the first place. If the intent to type is to help people understand themselves and others---to change the world as we know it through a conceptual understanding of the differences and similarties between people, then yes, I'd say that a majority opinion is relevant. Particularly, if the typed holds the same opinion of themselves as that majority. Language is in and of itself a collective tool. If the majority see a "red" "fruit" with a stem and call it an "apple" it makes little sense to refer to it as anything but that with the expectation of being understood or conveying a meaningful point. If our language doesn't resonate, then it doesn't work. Now perhaps that thing that the majority calls an "apple" is not a "red" "fruit" afterall, but better described as a "brown" "meat". The burden is on the brown meaters to relay this to the red fruiters---if it's important to our collective understanding and objective. Sort of a Pluto star/planet delimma.
And how are you defining the psychology of "FiSe"? Would there be an official description somewhere? Would that definition be interpreted the same way by everyone? Everyone who thinks morescode's really not FiSe?
I'm not defining the psychology of any type at all. That's your job--which you're doing quite well at btw. But if the description is so broad as to be interpreted in various ways then it runs the risk of being as valid as a sun sign. Don't know about you, but I relate to more than 50% of every sign in the zodiac. How will CT avoid this?
This is wrong.
My understanding, and I assume mv's as well, was that CT indeed determines the bulk of personality and that we can assume to understand certain things about a person based upon their CT. We likely both misunderstood moresecode to say that this was**not** the case, which is what opened this particular topic.
Last Edit: May 26, 2013 0:36:22 GMT -5 by starlit7
By the way, my friends and jungian colleagues don't believe me when I now say I am FiSe. I believe it is because I am a weird case of messed up functions or well-developed functions.. i dunno. They see too much N use(to be third process) and too much T use (to be inferior function - they don't know the term 'polar'). That's one of the reasons why I believe CT is revolutionary... it goes beyond jungian and mbti and socionics' habit of considering everybody as one-dimensional. My colleagues of profession and some friends who are into this subject see me as Ni-dom (some with F as second process and some with T as second process). Yesteday I even decided to never open my mouth again to tell people my type... since it brings confusion... they must get ct classes.
edit: I recall vividly when I read with a long-term (6 years together) friend (NeFi) marie louis von-franz description's (which is precisely entirely jungian-based) of Fi-doms and I neutraly asked him if he saw me there... And he was like 'No way... Not at all!'. I did the same with my mom, and her reaction was the same 'No. You are not this.'
Interesting. So what compels you to side with CT over people who know you, and even your own--previous(?)--understanding of yourself? What is it about FiSe or CT that works for you?
Last Edit: May 26, 2013 0:38:38 GMT -5 by starlit7
Mmm, in the case of semantics, yes that does make sense. And the aim will be indeed to have many people call FiSe (or any other type) the same thing and be referring to the same reality. The profiles will contain a psychological breakdown, a behavioral breakdown, a visual breakdown, a celebrity list and in the future a brain mapping template. In this way each type will be defined in much more detail, sorta like describing an apple by its mineral contents, so there should be even more consensus than there is presently with mbti/socionics. But it will take adjusting/abandoning some of those specifics in mbti/socionics/jung's work.
But it will take adjusting/abandoning some of those specifics in mbti/socionics/jung's work.
Completely! Which is why, I think, the language used is so important. The specifics of these other systems are conveyed via the language of those systems. By using the same language as the other systems, you can expect to eventually have the same problem. It's not entirely avoidable without a new language. So long as, say---"nostalgia" is associated with Si, you will have people say, "I'm not nostalgic=I am not Si", and this is fully understandable and relevant if the language of "nostalgia" does not resonate with a majority of those who are deemed Si or the people who know them. The depth of information provided by CT will likely minimize this to a large degree.
Last Edit: May 26, 2013 11:30:08 GMT -5 by starlit7
By the way, my friends and jungian colleagues don't believe me when I now say I am FiSe. I believe it is because I am a weird case of messed up functions or well-developed functions.. i dunno. They see too much N use(to be third process) and too much T use (to be inferior function - they don't know the term 'polar'). That's one of the reasons why I believe CT is revolutionary... it goes beyond jungian and mbti and socionics' habit of considering everybody as one-dimensional. My colleagues of profession and some friends who are into this subject see me as Ni-dom (some with F as second process and some with T as second process). Yesteday I even decided to never open my mouth again to tell people my type... since it brings confusion... they must get ct classes.
edit: I recall vividly when I read with a long-term (6 years together) friend (NeFi) marie louis von-franz description's (which is precisely entirely jungian-based) of Fi-doms and I neutraly asked him if he saw me there... And he was like 'No way... Not at all!'. I did the same with my mom, and her reaction was the same 'No. You are not this.'
Interesting. So what compels you to side with CT over people who know you, and even your own--previous(?)--
understanding of yourself? What is it about FiSe or CT that works for you?
:.
The fact that I am (before CT, this fact was confusing to me and that's why I posted my video here to have you guys VR me a month ago, because I felt something was wrong. how could I be NiFe if I felt I was an Fi user? and how could I be FiNe if I felt I was an Ni user?) I couldn't identify Ne, nor Si in me. The Si description is still a complete mystery to me if I try to use my own psique as a ressonance) 100% sure of the functions I use Fi, Te, Ni, Se. The only arrangement of these functions that make sense to me in me is FiSe. The second would be NiTe, but it has always been crystal clear to me that I am by NO means NiTe - not even NiTe with very well-developed Fi can possibily be so Fi-super. And even though I am able to use my Te competently, I tend to deliberatedly use my Te with gusto when it is subordinated to an ethical or relational issue or any topic I feel personally involved/excited somehow, even when it is intellectual.
I don't take what my colleagues of profession say about my type seriously because they basically 'only' meet me at times (theory discussions and case discussions) when I am using Ni, Te (and my Fi is introverted and not in their/people's faces). I usually don't let my Fi get in the way outwardly when the moment doesn't call for it (I actually learned to do this. I am 30 years old, even though I look 20. It was really learned because I noticed the nonsense of being on Fi-mode when the moment doesn't require it, especially professionally). and I like and demand from others and from myself rational approaches to rational matters - I am kinda able to kinda detach (at least publicly) from my Fi if the moment doesn't call for Fi (also, to allow energy to the functions that need to be used at a certain moment) and also since it is an introverted function, people see my face as passionless and they interpret it as 'rational' in such contexts. But, after a few hours, I get tired, want to get home and just listen to music to relax and tuck my Te in in its bed and sing it a lullaby song.
Last Edit: May 26, 2013 12:17:55 GMT -5 by Deleted
I didn't really know. I 'only knew' that there was something 'wrong' with me being FiNi/NiFi... even though that's what seemed to reflect my psyche. FiSe was really a shock at the beginning. I a l w a y s get tested as N (high score: more than 90%). And N is what people see in me and I never try to fake anything about my personality. However, when I look at my childhood I can see FiSe there. As an adult, I would say FiNi or FiSe(Ni-Te), which confuses people and even myself.
Last Edit: May 26, 2013 15:04:12 GMT -5 by Deleted
Being able to see the order of one's functions can be challenging sometimes. I think it has a lot to do with the oscillations Erifrail has described in other threads - someone with FiSe could at any time oscillate to use more Te or more Ni. This doesn't effect the intrinsic thought processes of the individual though. Functions come in pairs, they aren't isolated, so saying you're FiSe is really saying Fi/Te is the main set of processes your mind uses and Se/Ni is more or less utilized by Fi/Te to gather and store information. For someone who is a perception-lead, gathering and storage of information is the main process that their mind focuses on. For a PeJi, the collection of information comes first, it is stored in large volumes, then the judgement functions sort through it to facilitate the gathering and storing of more information.