Post by ayoungspirit on Dec 28, 2015 15:51:06 GMT -5
(mod: thread split from Book Download thread - Erifrail)
This is such a strong read. Your writing style is both precise, clear and concise, though it can be legitimately demanding on the reader. It is properly unassailable on this respect. Thus, rather than trying commenting specifically on what you said, I will elaborate on some related aspects that have marked me in the types. This might be redundant, superfluous or digressive, but, who knows, you may find something of worth in it.
PS : For commodity, I use "it" to designate the type as a whole, there is no prejudice meant by it, I apologize if it feels like it, so to say. I will also place the personal examples that correspond to the descriptions in another post, as they are not so clear cut, and to be honest, this is also simpler for me. Be assured though, that they directly inspired me in these remarks, and I will be prompt to illustrate it. Edit : The aforementioned posts have been withdrawn for the sake of privacy, but you might expect some testimonies in future articles.
FiNe - Edamin
Ethical refinement and self-defined snobbery
This development pertains somewhat to the "unsocial sensitivist" subtype. It seems to me that the deep identification to a process of ethical determination that is both self-defined and tuned toward refinement can lead to a variety of behavior, one of which is of course, shy seclusion.
Moreover, because of the un-adaptative nature of the process, the disagreement between the moral expectations and the factual behavior of the relatives can result sometimes not only in a demonstration of disappointment, but more so in a self-righteous and superior attitude. Since the judgement is entirely subjective, and more so very sophisticated, nobody can quite succeed in emulating it, and one thing leading to the other, the susceptible Fi-lead (or Fi-heavy) can come to believe that he is the only tenant of moral relevance.
Paradoxically, one such self-demanding, and oftentimes self-defeating, set of ethics can push its owner to partake in social relations and events. Because of its reactive attitude, the Fi-lead will not necessary engage people to conform, it may stand in the back, towering the others and waiting for an opportunity to whisper a critique against what it sees as a faux pas. Hence, it can gain, and sometimes by willful differentiation, can appropriate, a reputation as a snob.
Whereas the proactive and realistic nature of Se will oftentimes contradict this stereotype in FiSe in the long run, the imaginative orientation of Ne can tend to aggravate it. Not only will the FiNe be more restrained and unreachable, but it can be prone to find moral satisfaction in fantaisies, and therefore keep a disdainful attitude toward the factual world.
Not to say that there is only obliviousness to this. Even though I cannot be certain of his type, I believe one of the most famous French Writer, Marcel Proust, has both incarnated and captured this shade of FiNe in his work.
Marcel Proust (FiNe ?) (These are attachments, you can click to enlarge)
In his main work, A la recherche du Temps Perdu, Marcel Proust is describing in a half-autobiographical way the journey of a self-effacing young man from a fascination and disillusionment in the aristocracy toward, as you, Auburn , suggested, the secluded search of a subjective human truth through writing and memory.
Misanthropy and Seclusion
Whereas some find comfort in an aristocratic stance, some that are as much idealist but more so democratic in their aspirations are finding even more difficult to be satisfied by general human behavior. Their disappointment is proportional to their deep faith and investment in humanity. Years of disappointment can thus lead toward an ambivalent misanthropy, and sometimes a refuge, not only in imagination, but in seclusion.
Again, I cannot verify his type, but I believe the philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau was tributary to this shade. A proficient writer of refined sentimentality, his philosophical concepts were very influential in French Revolution and the First Republic. Nevertheless, he was so disgruntled by his contemporaries that he preferred to isolate himself to entertained his memories through his self-defined "confessions" writings, one of the first autobiographical work in modern French literature, and in the end, became paranoiac.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau (FiNe ?)
Closer to us, at least the French, we have the songwriter and musician Renaud Séchan. Once a very mediatised singer, he was made famous by his very politically-charged, very satirical and very creatively worded songs. Always bitter about French society, he first started drinking alcohol and one day disappeared from the public eyes. He has been absent for years, only getting sporadic interviews, where he confirmed that he was unable to stand society anymore.
Renaud Séchan (FiNe)
A side-word about grating voice
Fi-lead and Te humor
Geralt of Rivia (FiSe ?)
Maybe it is somewhat due to alcohol, but Renaud affected voice went from a nasal quality to having a more grating tone. I am under the impression that it is somewhat recurrent in older, more "manly" Fi-lead. This is anecdotal, but I find interesting that, in the video game the Witcher 3, they went for this tone for the "unpleasant" voice of Geralt of Rivia, as it was described in the book, an admittedly FiSe-like character. He actually is the only (human) one to display it, even among his caste.
Geralt of Rivia (FiSe ?)
One thing that marked me about some FiNe is their propensity to balance seelieness and unseelieness toward their own brand of restrained, ironic, haughty sense of Te-humor, sometimes leaning on their fairy side. They will play their susceptibility, snobbery for laugh, or take material consequences to their natural conclusions in the most sarcastic or self-depecrating way. I even know one seelie fairy who is into a mix between really silly and really trashy humor.
Again, in France, we have two stand up comics who could be defined by this very trait (even though I find them harder to type, and maybe mistaking). One was Sylvie Joly, one of the first woman to practice in the country, often with haughty middle class characters, and the other is Pierre Palmade, doing a sketch about a delicate man who goes to make out of place practical suggestion to the military.
Sylvie Joly (FiNe ?). Edit : More probably TeSi.
Pierre Palmade (Fine ? Alt : NeFi)
A word about the "Physicist"
Some thoughts about the "philanthropist" idea
This maybe the only point on which I would properly critique your writing, Auburn , and this is very trivial, but I find confusing to have the same name for the FiNe and the TeNi subtype in "Physicist", especially since it does not relate precisely to physics (and I actually found a very conscientious and dedicated example of it in, of all things, youtube video game critique, Noah Cadwell Gervais). Perhaps it would take more sense to me if it were to have an additional adjective, pertaining to there emotional core ? I would say "soft physicist" against the TeNi "hard physicist" but this would be maybe unfair
Noah Cadwell-Gervais (FiNe)
Since this part has yet to been written, I will not hold forth on it. I just would like to say that, in respect to altruism, I have been impressed both by the ability for some Fi-lead to navigate confidently and flawlessly the social world, almost as Fe users if a bit more static in presentation and agreeableness, and by the loyal dedication of some others to help, especially on practical matters, their relatives. Sometimes, the latter are so exhausted from this that they threaten to seclude, but these are empty words.
This can even take a political sense. Here is a word aside for those of you who are not yet sick of my observations on the matter.
I believe Brice Hortefeux would exemplify this brand of loyalty. He has been loyal to SeFi Nicolas Sarkozy, yes, again, for almost forty years and was even nicknamed "porte-flingue" (basically "thug"). All this time he has been prompt to defend him, to execute his exact strategies, and now that there is more and more people that are turning against him, almost everybody, he still is unswervingly loyal, in spite of his detestable reputation for the left and even middle-right.
Brice Hortefeux (FiNe ?)