Definitely alpha type... and lots Ti, yes. She's very zen in this video...
Looking at other videos of her on youtube, I think you're spot on. (or, either FeSi or TiNe. There's lots of Ti and receding, but also a very present warmth. I wish I knew the language to get a better grasp of it)
So she is either an FeSi with high Ti development or a TiNe with high Fe development...a very interesting person either way. If she's the latter, perhaps being an actress occasioned the rich development of her Fe. I guess she is balanced, seeing as she could easily pass for her polar, whichever type she actually is of the two possibilities.
And yay!! I finally guessed a type right (more or less)!
Sorry to be a possible downer, but I thought this woman was typed as FiSe...? I thought I remember a couple videos of her being under the "examples of FiSe" thread...but I could be wrong as I can't seem to find that thread on the forum now...
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.” – Albert Einstein
Sorry to be a possible downer, but I thought this woman was typed as FiSe...? I thought I remember a couple videos of her being under the "examples of FiSe" thread...but I could be wrong as I can't seem to find that thread on the forum now...
O man, I really really hope not!!! That would confuse me even more.
Her pupils dance like mine do, that is, ALL over the white, every which-way, up, down, sideways (which I have come to associate with Ne-Si and not Se-Ni which don't dance as much). They rarely remain very still for extended periods. And her eyes remain soft throughout and never sharpen. Plus her eye-brows do the weird Si thing in that space in-between, (for example, look at 1;40 and actually very many other points): that space above the nose where the two eye-brows "meet" at times moves abruptly upwards, pulling the brows up with it and giving them--very briefly--that slanting Si-brow shape. What attracted me to her Gif in Morscode's thread were the hand gestures...they seem very Fe-Ti and I actually guessed FeSi because her hand movements, finger shapes and body posture reminded me of some of my own videos!
I would not be surprised if she were a different type but I would be very confused if both her oscillations were completely different from my own! (Which would be the case with FiSe as opposed to TiNe or SiFe or NeTi). Because this thing with her hands...that's almost exactly what I do in so many of my videos. I don't do the eye-brow thing (not visibly, any way) but I definitely do the pupil dance in much the same way as her eyes do it.
“If every tiny flower wanted to be a rose, spring would lose its loveliness.”
Sorry to be a possible downer, but I thought this woman was typed as FiSe...? I thought I remember a couple videos of her being under the "examples of FiSe" thread...but I could be wrong as I can't seem to find that thread on the forum now...
Ah, I did a search and found it in this thread. It seems like it's from a long time ago, but maybe heron or morsecode could pitch in their perspective?
ps. no downer at all. error checking/correcting could use some more encouragement. as well as healthy debate - which is how learning happens. o.o
Sorry to be a possible downer, but I thought this woman was typed as FiSe...? I thought I remember a couple videos of her being under the "examples of FiSe" thread...but I could be wrong as I can't seem to find that thread on the forum now...
Ah, I did a search and found it in this thread. It seems like it's from a long time ago, but maybe heron or morsecode could pitch in their perspective?
ps. no downer at all. error checking/correcting could use some more encouragement. as well as healthy debate - which is how learning happens. o.o
Hi, guys! A quick data-response about her type, providing some data (I understand the language she is speaking in the videos).
Yeah, that painful FiSe reading was done years ago. Imo it’s important that many of old time readings are taken with a gigant spoon of salt. Heron and I changed our minds about the type of many people as time progressed as we got a better grasp of things. Yes, she’s completely alpha, J-lead. There’s that emotionality on her face and lots of Ti too. Her energy recedes a LOT but she disengages down little. I am more inclined to see her as TiNe. However, the polar type is not impossible - and it is also confusing/contradicting in her speach. 0.o
Language data: I think it peculiar how overly attached she seems to her 'ethos'/'moral convictions', in a way that sometimes can come accross as a bit “preachy” in the way she speaks imo... to a point that my Pe-nature leads me to find it annoying to hear her sometimes (and boring), like...: “Come on, relax, dude, not too too seriouzly, plis.” Signature: Just a Pe-lead in the world, aka morsecode. She was recently involved in quarrels in the comments part of her YouTube channel. She has recently gone publicly to take political side to a government that is being accused of (proved) corruption. The president of her country is going through a process of impeachman for this reason. The source of Leticia's quarrels on the comments of her videos on YouTubz: she accepted a big amount of figures from the government, money redirected to foster art in the country and should be applied in the making of a film about indigenous people. That money was publicly claimed to be used in the making of this film she was producing. In the same period, out of the blue (nobody knew she sang), she launched a costly career as a singer, a happening that visibly took at least a GREAT amount of cash – the production of the concerts, the filming, the super pro musicians, etc. Some people were on the comments box accusing her of having accepted dirty money for personal purposes. I honestly have NO idea if the accusations are legitimate or not, because I don't have data to know. She reacted to the comments accusing those people who wrote the comments of being fascist and other terms. Well, I can’t say more as I wasn’t willing to spend time following the discussions as they were incredibly uninteresting, low level and unprolific: “you fascist!”, “u hypocrite!”, etc. I was just: “0.0 *skips to something healthier urgently*” But here is some data. Anyways, maybe that suggests a not big usage of Pe for her to possibly be Ne-support? *speculations* or was that just Ti being car-jacked by Fe?
Moarr language data: In the video below she mentions that she lacked yang (she uses this word... "Yang, I needed yang") to speak firmly with the movie team when directing the film (in her words). Seconds before that: "I was lacking the strength to belive in my voice to command someone". Have you guys ever seen a Fe-lead make this sort of revelation? I haven’t but I haven’t been exposed to many. ;P
Thanks for the information about what she says. About your last statement and the "I was lacking strength to believe in my voice to command someone"....what is the context? Who was she reluctant to command? Edit: I see it is the movie team, sorry.
I personally am very reluctant to order anyone around unless I have clear rights to do so. Even while younger, I may have dished out too much advise, and while involved in debate I may have insisted that somethings were wrong or false no matter what people said, but I really don't know that I ever "commanded" anyone I did not have a right to (say someone I hired to do a job). In fact, i think quite the opposite happened at work where certain people lower in the hierarchy took advantage of me because of that, they learned I couldn't straight up insist or sometimes even just tell them what to do. I did lots of clerical work others wouldnt because I "couldn't" tell some people to do their job (I wasn't their boss in that I couldnt fire them and wouldn't go to the boss to report them either) and ended up doing every job I was assigned myself from start to finish, all the aspects, to avoid telling them "do this or that for me". The most I can think of is trying to talk someone into doing or not doing something....at home! Or my friends who I am afraid are heading down a really dangerous path. Commanding? Don't think so.
And the insults under her youtube....Mind explaining that a bit? Why is name-calling an Fe trait? Just asking!
Thanks for the information about what she says. About your last statement and the "I was lacking strength to believe in my voice to command someone"....what is the context? Who was she reluctant to command? Edit: I see it is the movie team, sorry.
I personally am very reluctant to order anyone around unless I have clear rights to do so. Even while younger, I may have dished out too much advise, and while involved in debate I may have insisted that somethings were wrong or false no matter what people said, but I really don't know that I ever "commanded" anyone I did not have a right to (say someone I hired to do a job). In fact, i think quite the opposite happened at work where certain people lower in the hierarchy took advantage of me because of that, they learned I couldn't straight up insist or sometimes even just tell them what to do. I did lots of clerical work others wouldnt because I "couldn't" tell some people to do their job (I wasn't their boss in that I couldnt fire them and wouldn't go to the boss to report them either) and ended up doing every job I was assigned myself from start to finish, all the aspects, to avoid telling them "do this or that for me". The most I can think of is trying to talk someone into doing or not doing something....at home! Or my friends who I am afraid are heading down a really dangerous path. Commanding? Don't think so.
And the insults under her youtube....Mind explaining that a bit? Why is name-calling an Fe trait? Just asking!
Hi, Authenticity , yes, exactly... I am glad you re-read my post and saw that what she was reluctant to was her job/attribution in that moment, that was precisely to command the movie team (direct the team), and she was connecting that in the interview to "needing more yang". The point is: TiNe is a very yin-like type, while it seems to me that Fe naturally carries in itself at least a minimal quantity of 'yang energy' to at least use it when it is really necessary (directing a team to make the movie happen). TiNes can become more yangish throughout their process of developmet but I haven't seen yet an Fe-lead struggle with that in that way (it was a job attribution). But then again, I say this in a tone of speculation. Imo no flat correlation could be drawn between 'commanding' and 'Fe', at all (in the sense that no way I was claming that Fe-leads have a tendecy toward 'commanding' in their lives), the point is that if the job of the person in that moment is exactly to command/direct and the person struggles to do it, claming that 'needed more yang' to be able to do that, at least in my narrow experience with Fe-leads, they would at least have been able to direct/command without feeling "Oh my god, I lack yang to do that. I have a problem now." No doubt that TiNe's can develop a good amount of yang energy in the course of their lives. But I hope I made my point clear as I lack time to write much.
"And the insults under her youtube....Mind explaining that a bit? Why is name-calling an Fe trait? Just asking! "
I didn't say that name-calling is an Fe trait. The point is that in the moment of her discussions on youtube (from the way she approached it) it seems to me that Fe and Ti were not working in tandem at all in that moment, and that's why I wrote: "was that just Ti being car-jacked by Fe?" -> because when Ti is operating, it provides enough detachment and place to logical reasoning. She seemed to be too infused in emotionality in that moment for Ti to operative. That doesn't imply at all that name-calling is an Fe trait, or an Si trait or an Ne trait. And, I would add that that I've seen many Ti-leads in moments when their Ti seemed to have disappeared in heated situations. That's why that doesn't prove anything about her type, but indicates that in that moment Ti was not operating. Ne brings a good deal of 'putting things in perspective' instead of holding to a more crystalized or blackOrwhite approach to situations (and Ti in operation doesn't allow a simplistic and flat approach, like a bunch of insults - and hey, thay doesn't mean that Fe is simplist or flat. Lord, don't let me be misunderstood.), in that moment, she didn't seem to show either Ne or Ti imo. But then again, that was just a tiny strip of her life. We are working here with few data: the things she makes public compared to the vast ocean of an existence. Not the best scenario for typing. But still we try. I really hope I was at least clear in my points.
OK, @morsecode . Didn't mean to put you on the spot, there. Yes, when necessary, I can give orders. I have also been known to struggle with it, though, and like I said, to sometimes take on roles no one else in my position would entertain just because I couldn't order certain people around (the FeSi "martyr" comes to mind). I bet there may be many Fe leads who dont like to lead...to be in a position of constantly commanding others or to be the guy everything falls back on (to make the ultimate decision for everyone, unless it involves clear cut moral issues where the right thing is fairly obvious and one can live with any consequences that follow). I enjoy teaching but leading is something else altogether. However, I do think where the roles are clearly defined, I can do it easily, For example, if I were a movie director like her, I think yes, you're right, I would be able to direct people on the set, especially if I had done the hiring myself or at least had the power to fire and this was all very clear to all, as it must be on a movie set. No ambiguity of roles among the people being lead means ability to wield that thing you call "yang", but if not, very hard.
I'm not sure I accept that Fe is necessarily responsible for the name calling or the emotionality...I mean it might be, I just don't think it has to be, or that this would make us doubt that a person is a Ti-lead? Fe tends to be very aware of propriety even in a debate and the rules of fairness that apply (like no adhominems, please!) Of course Fe leads don't always follow such rules but I'm just saying I don't think that name-calling by itself indicates high presence of Fe?? Though perhaps the kind of name-calling might indicate it? In this case, yeah, accusations of hypocrisy or fascism may be moral judgments so maybe you are right? I don't know. But I am usually keen on people who misbehave in debates and resort to cheap shots, and I think that is usually Fe mostly, supported by Ti principles. Perhaps this is just about immaturity or some other issue??
Edit: I've re-read your post, you're saying the name-calling doesn't indicate her type! OK, gotcha!
Post by ayoungspirit on Apr 24, 2016 16:39:09 GMT -5
Aqua : I personally am very reluctant to order anyone around unless I have clear rights to do so. Even while younger, I may have dished out too much advise, and while involved in debate I may have insisted that somethings were wrong or false no matter what people said, but I really don't know that I ever "commanded" anyone I did not have a right to (say someone I hired to do a job).
Sorry for the digression, but I would like to say that I find that the dichotomy between the "directive" and "adaptive" modalities of Fe can create quite subtle dynamics in the Fe-lead. Sometimes, whereas their strict demeanor suggests they have a definite idea on something, they will seemingly refrain to express it and listen solemnly. As an outside observer, I do not know to what extent it may correspond to internal conflict, or to principled courtesy. What would be your opinion on this ? Are you more mentally "assertive" than you sometimes let it show, or are you doubting yourself ? My question is voluntarily vague, so make what you want of it
Last Edit: Apr 24, 2016 17:14:37 GMT -5 by ayoungspirit
Aqua : I personally am very reluctant to order anyone around unless I have clear rights to do so. Even while younger, I may have dished out too much advise, and while involved in debate I may have insisted that somethings were wrong or false no matter what people said, but I really don't know that I ever "commanded" anyone I did not have a right to (say someone I hired to do a job).
Sorry for the digression, but I would like to say that I find that the dichotomy between the "directive" and "adaptive" modalities of Fe can create quite subtle dynamics in the Fe-lead. Sometimes, whereas their strict demeanor suggests they have a definite idea on something, they will seemingly refrain to express it and listen solemnly. As an outside observer, I do not know to what extent it may correspond to internal conflict, or to principled courtesy. What would be your opinion on this ? Are you more mentally "assertive" than you sometimes let it show, or are you doubting yourself ? My question is voluntarily vague, so make what you want of it
Oh, sure! Ever since I (recently) discovered I am an Fe-lead, I have been thinking about why I endlessly danced between the NP Mbti personalities and the FJ ones, and with my newly-found clarity (of my preferences) I have come to see it as the dynamic you describe. In MBTI circles, I think the adaptive Fe can be seen as "P", and the directive as "J", and the truth is I think I have both adaptive and directive very much in me, always. Who gets to come out and play really is contextual.
I do refrain A LOT! And holding my tongue did not come naturally in all ways, but in some aspects is borne of painful life experience. I used to debate for no point assuming no one took it personally because I didn't (or rather, perhaps I thought no one "should" take it personally) I have come to devalue that habit in myself. I care far too much about positive relationships to sustain that. I think being Fe lead means I value very much the free expressions of my own opinions but it also means I value very much maintaining a positive atmosphere between myself and others.
There is a genuine struggle there when deciding whether something is worth saying or not. A lot of times, yes, it's "principled courtesy" in which case there is no struggle. It is very clear that my opinions are inappropriate, maybe it's my boss or a stranger. I can't say anything critical or negative about a person's significant other, or their children or their parents, or their religion, no matter how true or obvious or publicly acknowledged it may be, for example. I think that is "principled courtesy".
But if there is an issue like, say, the morality of euthanasia or the death penalty or intellectual property, things like that...and there's a discussion going on, and it has nothing directly touching upon any person in the room (neither they, nor anybody close to them is considering euthanasia or facing capital punishment, for example), and yet I'm aware people have strong feelings about their positions, well...When I was younger, I would happily announce my positions and battle anyone "to the death" in debate. These days, I'd rather just not bother. I'm more afraid of souring things between me and my friends and family (it's harder to do with family, though, for some reason) stating a view that doesn't actually affect us directly. I've also tried to deliberately "not have those views" if you know what I mean...to downplay their importance to me as I realize having strong opinions when I am not a legislator or judge is rather pointless (so I tell myself!)...I guess, I realize very strong opinions even if kept to oneself somehow, don't know why, but they do tend to make one unhappy...?? Hmm...I guess I just want to be happy much more than I want to have correct views at this point in life.
Also, I don't always have the strict demeanour, some people are rather shocked when they see my more directive side...usually friends and colleagues. I think among my peers, I could pass for the bubbly EFPs as they are described in MBTI (Now that I have seen their videos, I think it's a bit funny how I entertained the thought of being ENFP for so long, I am so clearly not! And I think I know one or two people who might be! And I tend to like and feel protective over them, actually). But most other people who I don't have to talk to or who I have met under less casual circumstances, generally are the other way around, they tend to act totally shocked when they see me playing and chatting for hours. I think I can understand why ESFJs or Fe is made out to be somewhat shallow or fake...we really can display what to other people may look like multiple personality disorder depending on the environment. I think people who know me at work, school, church, neighbourhood, (online!) may all know a very different person! But to me it's not fake and doesn't necessarily involve "pretending"...just choosing which aspects of myself to expose when, where and to whom. They are all true, but they are not all seen by all people I deal with all the time, because they are not all needed everywhere.
EDIT: I realized I didn't actually answer your question, ayoungspirit! No....I'm not usually doubting my own opinions. I'm doubting whether I should express them or wondering how to.
Post by ayoungspirit on Apr 26, 2016 15:37:05 GMT -5
Aqua : EDIT: I realized I didn't actually answer your question, ayoungspirit! No....I'm not usually doubting my own opinions. I'm doubting whether I should express them or wondering how to.
On the contrary, this was a perfectly fine answer, very enlightening ! If you allow me to get one further clarification, I would like to ask how you may feel toward the people who "upset" your judgement, whether voluntarily or involuntary, perhaps simply by failing to meet the expectations. Are you inclined toward frustration, compassion, or rather something else ? I can get some sense out of what you already said, but maybe you could be more explicit ?
Aqua : I think among my peers, I could pass for the bubbly EFPs as they are described in MBTI (Now that I have seen their videos, I think it's a bit funny how I entertained the thought of being ENFP for so long, I am so clearly not! And I think I know one or two people who might be! And I tend to like and feel protective over them, actually).
For the anecdote, I believe that Dario Nardi's EEG study lead him to claim that the ESFJs results were closer to ENFPs than what he anticipated.
Last Edit: Apr 26, 2016 15:41:18 GMT -5 by ayoungspirit
Aqua : EDIT: I realized I didn't actually answer your question, ayoungspirit! No....I'm not usually doubting my own opinions. I'm doubting whether I should express them or wondering how to.
On the contrary, this was a perfectly fine answer, very enlightening ! If you allow me to get one further clarification, I would like to ask how you may feel toward the people who "upset" your judgement, whether voluntarily or involuntary, perhaps simply by failing to meet the expectations. Are you inclined toward frustration, compassion, or rather something else ? I can get some sense out of what you already said, but maybe you could be more explicit ?
Aqua : I think among my peers, I could pass for the bubbly EFPs as they are described in MBTI (Now that I have seen their videos, I think it's a bit funny how I entertained the thought of being ENFP for so long, I am so clearly not! And I think I know one or two people who might be! And I tend to like and feel protective over them, actually).
For the anecdote, I believe that Dario Nardi's EEG study lead him to claim that the ESFJs results were closer to ENFPs than what he anticipated.
My reaction really depends on how "entitled" I feel towards whatever behavior has been "with-held" and what conclusions about the person it leads me to draw.
It may be simply making a mental note of what this behaviour says about this person in general (maybe he/she is different/selfish/thoughtless etc) but without feeling anything negative towards them. It's much more of an observation than anything else, just additional information. There will be no behaviour adjustments, at least not conscious ones. I'd say this is majority of the time someone says or does something I dislike from an ethical view-point. I tend to easily distinguish my feelings for the individual from my feelings for their ethics.
But it may be that I decide it tells me something about how this person regards me directly. They dislike me, disrespect me, are angry at me, etc. This will definitely lead to behavioural adjustments. From my point of view, it's not that I am changing the relationship, rather I realize that the relationship is different than I had presumed up until that point. I then interiorly adjust my attitude to fit the actual relationship as I see it. Getting here may be very slow, however. The first time I have the thoughts, there will be no behavioral adjustments because it's tentative at that point...I could be wrong. However, through repeated "violations" or additional information, such judgments may become firm, at which point my mental attitude/feelings may change depending on the situation.
Lastly, there are a few "rules" which to me are somewhat personal even if their violation is directed at other people. I tend to dislike people who strike me as being devoid of empathy or habouring intense ill-will, which to me is indicated by an extreme form of selfishness, cruelty or behaviour that shows this person regards others as trash. This kind of thing makes me genuinely scared of these individuals. I see them as people who could hurt me in the blink of an eye, if they needed to, if the circumstances permitted it. I can have deeply negative feelings toward them, the same as you would toward a bully if you were a child at a school playground. Not just straight hate, but a mixture of fear, mistrust, anger and other feelings all rolled into one giant apprehension. These are the people I want nothing at all to do with. I would be happy if we just never ever cross paths anywhere.
Is it much different for you...seeing as FE is your support as an NiFe?