I don't understand these people....

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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 11:53:12 GMT -5 by Deleted

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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 11:53:12 GMT -5

....those who take pride in being an "American" or "British" or "Chinese".

What I see them doing is how they hate their own people and governments. And then say they are proud to be part of those respective countries. What? If you are proud to be a part of that...then how come you are not accepting it beings? Arent those beings represent what that country is? Then what are you proud of?

I don't understand these people...

elly Full Member Posts: 191	I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 12:39:36 GMT -5 by elly Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by elly on May 22, 2013 12:39:36 GMT -5 They don't know what they're talking about.

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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 13:05:20 GMT -5 by Deleted elly likes this

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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 13:05:20 GMT -5

May 22, 2013 12:39:36 GMT -5 elly said:

They don't know what they're talking about.

I cannot stop to be amazed by the capacity of weak minded people to get away with so much. It has even become a rule: "If you own most of the stuff...you make the rule".

Heron
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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 14:13:24 GMT -5 by Heron elly likes this

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Post by Heron on May 22, 2013 14:13:24 GMT -5

i've already found an answer to this question some time ago: Stockholm syndrome.
Putting aside the jokes... i think it isn't different from playstation and X-box fans. They spent money on one of these consoles, so to justify the price they become urrational defending malfunctions and limits even knowing, the same thing can be said for the assiduous sport fans. So, the normal "guy" do the same thing: he is born in a country, so he juridically and affectively belongs to it. When he become adult (hopefully with a job) starts to pay taxes and vote what he wants (or he thinks to want, opinionable) starts to defend his "fence" like his home.
But i don't want to criticize that, is the human nature that works like this.

From my point of view, i think is much better be grateful to be a living being and then proud of being Human. We don't belong anywhere, there is no permanent point in life, the only one is just yourself.

Last Edit: May 22, 2013 14:36:46 GMT -5 by Heron

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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 15:21:01 GMT -5 by Deleted

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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 15:21:01 GMT -5

May 22, 2013 14:13:24 GMT -5 Heron said:

i've already found an answer to this question some time ago: Stockholm syndrome.
Putting aside the jokes... i think it isn't different from playstation and X-box fans. They spent money on one of these consoles, so to justify the price they become urrational defending malfunctions and limits even knowing, the same thing can be said for the assiduous sport fans. So, the normal "guy" do the same thing: he is born in a country, so he juridically and affectively belongs to it. When he become adult (hopefully with a job) starts to pay taxes and vote what he wants (or he thinks to want, opinionable) starts to defend his "fence" like his home.
But i don't want to criticize that, is the human nature that works like this.

Then they think this is the best they can do? I mean, you come to life, you are being told to defend that clutch of land and die for it....and that's it? Even if you are being told what to do, sooner or later don't you ask yourself "is this really the best thing that I can do?". Am I here to just die for a piece of land? And even if you justify it to be true, then don't you ask yourself this: "Am I going to take that land to my grave? If not, then does it worth dieing for?"

I think they do that not because they like to be abused. In stockholm syndrome people justify to themselves that the abuse done to them is for a good reason. But I think these people don't even perceive it as an abuse. They do not identify it as an abuse, because they cannot come up with something better than that. According to them, this is how it should be anyway. And the reason why they don't perceive this as an abuse....is because they can tolerate it. It's not intolerable to them. It's ok to them.

I think I've just answered my own question.lol

Yes I have a tendency of asking people questions that I have answers of.lol

I'm bad.

Perhaps I am looking for different perspectives. Which is more likely.

And..I hate talking to myself like the above.lol

Edit: I think they don't understand that they are capable of doing much more. They have no vision.

Last Edit: May 22, 2013 15:22:43 GMT -5 by Deleted

elly
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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 15:44:59 GMT -5 by elly

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Post by elly on May 22, 2013 15:44:59 GMT -5

They may be insecure so they seek for external validation to compensate for that. Many people like British accents and so on and therefore they feel better about themselves because they're "British" and someone likes that.
Their own opinion might still be that they don't like their country but that's their own opinion, no one else's, and because of that it doesn't matter as much since they still need external validation in order to feel better about themselves.

Last Edit: May 22, 2013 15:47:11 GMT -5 by elly

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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 16:05:44 GMT -5 by Deleted

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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 16:05:44 GMT -5

May 22, 2013 15:44:59 GMT -5 elly said:

They may be insecure so they seek for external validation to compensate for that. Many people like British accents and so on and therefore they feel better about themselves because they're "British" and someone likes that.
Their own opinion might still be that they don't like their country but that's their own opinion, no one else's, and because of that it doesn't matter as much since they still need external validation in order to feel better about themselves.

In other words, they do it because they can.

They just use complaining to gain recognition. Their concerns are not genuine.

Then they don't ask themselves questions such as "Is this the best that I can do?". Again, to do that they need genuine concern. They don't have one.

Then the more proper question should be this: "Why am I as MV do have such concerns?"

Yes, perhaps I do depend on them. Or maybe I have no same coping mechanism as they do. Because they obviously don't feel the need to depend on others. Perhaps there is something wrong with me. Maybe I lack something in huge amounts. Or maybe I just have a vision that nobody around me shares. And talking about it is futile, because they are incapable of understanding what I say. They have to see it in work first. Wow, this is very messed up.

I need to move out.

elly
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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 16:28:17 GMT -5 by elly

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Post by elly on May 22, 2013 16:28:17 GMT -5

@mv
Most people are too lazy to do something about their problems. It's easier to just get attention by acting "weak" rather than actually working on your self-confidence.
I think they do depend on others. They need other people in order to be fed all the validation that they want and without that, they would be helpless. They're kind of like "trolls", and you know what they say: "don't feed the trolls."
I'm pretty sure that you're not the one lacking anything, they obviously are.

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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 16:40:19 GMT -5 by Deleted

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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 16:40:19 GMT -5

May 22, 2013 16:28:17 GMT -5 elly said:

@mv
Most people are too lazy to do something about their problems. It's easier to just get attention by acting "weak" rather than actually working on your self-confidence.
I think they do depend on others. They need other people in order to be fed all the validation that they want and without that, they would be helpless. They're kind of like "trolls", and you know what they say: "don't feed the trolls."
I'm pretty sure that you're not the one lacking anything, they obviously are.

Precisely.

I have major problems when it comes to getting attention from people. It seems like my TCP/IP protocol of brain communication patterns do not match with people

I think I am incapable of receiving (and understanding) "validation" from people. I think I am in that "helpless" state already. And I think this lack of communication on such level, forced me to move on more action side of the things. And that is not the modus of operandi of people. That why I have no people around me.

It's quite probable that it is me who lacks something. Not them. But in logical terms and action terms, yes it is definitely them who lack something.

I wonder, would I be the same type person if I grew up in society that I was born in? I wouldn't have that communication problem with people. Would I still be TeNi? Or does this even have any relation with that? Maybe I am not really TeNi. But the conditions I have grown up in made me so? What if this is true? What then?

Last Edit: May 22, 2013 16:41:50 GMT -5 by Deleted

elly
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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 17:07:35 GMT -5 by elly

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Post by elly on May 22, 2013 17:07:35 GMT -5

@mv

Don't you think that you're action-oriented because of your dominant function and not mainly due to communication issues?

I was just thinking about the same thing - whether we're born with our cognitive type or not.
I think you'd notice a pattern if your type developed according to your environment. An example would be that all SiFe's have had similar experiences in their lives. This, to me, sounds a bit unlikely. Me and my brothers have grown up in the same environment and have had similar things happen to us, but we're still different types. I'm not dismissing the possibility that it might depend on the world around you, I'm just trying to explore every angle.
Erifrail made a thread a while back about identical twins that had been re-united after spending their lives seperately, and most of them shared the same type, if I remember correctly.
How is your relationship with your Fi, and do you think that's what's causing your communication problems?

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I don't understand these people.... May 22, 2013 17:29:58 GMT -5 by Deleted elly likes this

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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 17:29:58 GMT -5

May 22, 2013 17:07:35 GMT -5 elly said:

@mv

Don't you think that you're action-oriented because of your dominant function and not mainly due to communication issues?

I was just thinking about the same thing - whether we're born with our cognitive type or not.
I think you'd notice a pattern if your type developed according to your environment. An example would be that all SiFe's have had similar experiences in their lives. This, to me, sounds a bit unlikely. Me and my brothers have grown up in the same environment and have had similar things happen to us, but we're still different types. I'm not dismissing the possibility that it might depend on the world around you, I'm just trying to explore every angle.
Erifrail made a thread a while back about identical twins that had been re-united after spending their lives seperately, and most of them shared the same type, if I remember correctly.
How is your relationship with your Fi, and do you think that's what's causing your communication problems?

Well I certainly would be more mellow if I didn't have communication problems. But my curiosity and willingness to explore to more limited extent would still be there. However I am not sure if that would be enough to qualify me as Te dominant.

I have a brother who grew up with me and he doesn have communication problems. I do not, however, exclude the possibility that we might have different levels of intelligence. What if my brother smarter than me? What if he sees patterns that I do not. However, my brother always was far more sociable than I am. I didnt seem to be concerned about social things in my childhood. But that wasn't as bad as it is now. I could see patterns in people emotional behaviors. I cant now. But I can with people where I came from. Still not ideal. But workable. In my current place its not workable. And not even feasible.

Yes I think Fi is the problem. But I think that problem comes from the fact that Fi is powerless in providing the intricate and delicate emotional nature of the person in front of me.

elly
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I don't understand these people.... May 23, 2013 14:23:33 GMT -5 by elly

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Post by elly on May 23, 2013 14:23:33 GMT -5

@mv

People are good at different things. Your strength may not lie in the communication department right now (it can always change), but that doesn't mean that you're lower in intelligence than your brother. There are probably different kinds of intelligence as well. I know that "social intelligence" isn't my strength. It might also have something to do with your types.
Either way, this problem is luckily something that you can work on. I don't know if Erifrail will be posting decriptions about "personal growth" for each type, but that'd be helpful.

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I don't understand these people.... May 23, 2013 16:06:52 GMT -5 by Deleted elly likes this

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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 16:06:52 GMT -5

You are absolutely right Elly. It's about lack of social intelligence.

I was having this "Aha" moment few minutes ago when I was taking a shower. I have been thinking about comparing how would I perceive people such as the above in the place of my birth with those who live near me right now. And that is where the answer came from.

I would perceive them as intellectually lazy people. Not because they have some better view of the world. There is nothing about them that needs to be understood. They are the opposite of trying to understand. They are not to be understood. There is nothing about them that requires understanding. They are the result of lack of understanding.

The curious side for me now is why I do not perceive them here in the same manner. Why? Is there any mechanism at work that I am not yet aware of? Or is it some type of conditioning from me that stops me from advancing further? Very interesting.

elly
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I don't understand these people.... May 24, 2013 2:38:41 GMT -5 by elly

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Post by elly on May 24, 2013 2:38:41 GMT -5

The people around you now might not be "intellectually lazy". It could just be as simple as that. If they are, it would be interesting to know why you perceive them differently.
There must be some difference between them or maybe your perception of people in general has changed? I don't know.. It's hard to find an answer to this since, right now, it doesn't make sense.

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I don't understand these people.... May 24, 2013 3:58:08 GMT -5 by Deleted

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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 3:58:08 GMT -5

May 24, 2013 2:38:41 GMT -5 elly said:

The people around you now might not be "intellectually lazy". It could just be as simple as that. If they are, it would be interesting to know why you perceive them differently.
There must be some difference between them or maybe your perception of people in general has changed? I don't know.. It's hard to find an answer to this since, right now, it doesn't make sense.

Of course they are they intellectually lazy. People are concerned with things that is in their immediate reach. Most people don't care about their lives the way I do. If they can find a place to live, a beer to drink, and a woman to....you know what I mean.....then it is a good life for them. And it's appropriate to live that way. They do not care about things that I care about. It's laughable material for them.

They do not care about knowing things. I do. It is me who try to explore the life in all its possible forms. Not them. They are unconcerned about such things. It is too hard for them to think in that way. Hell, they may not even be aware of such things. Just how many times did you instantly understand the person who told you something fuzzy at your first time? Probably not that much. And how many times did you laugh at things that you don't fully understand? Probably many times too. That doesn't make one person great. Nor even smart. It just makes them...who they are. And by being who they are they think they have accomplished something. There is no validation process running in their head to identify whether their self perception is valid to outer world. They do not ask themselves questions such as "Are my convictions true? How true they are? How far off from the world outside of me are they? If my convictions are even complete?". They do not ask such questions. They don't care about that.

The above is true with people I was born with.

I do not know what truly going on in people head that are around me right now.

Last Edit: May 24, 2013 3:58:21 GMT -5 by Deleted

I don't understand these people....

Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 11:53:12 GMT -5

Post by elly on May 22, 2013 12:39:36 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 13:05:20 GMT -5

Post by Heron on May 22, 2013 14:13:24 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 15:21:01 GMT -5

Post by elly on May 22, 2013 15:44:59 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 16:05:44 GMT -5

Post by elly on May 22, 2013 16:28:17 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 16:40:19 GMT -5

Post by elly on May 22, 2013 17:07:35 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 17:29:58 GMT -5

Post by elly on May 23, 2013 14:23:33 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 16:06:52 GMT -5

Post by elly on May 24, 2013 2:38:41 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on May 24, 2013 3:58:08 GMT -5

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