oh my, some of these weren't as straight-forward as I thought they were! I spent 2-5 minutes on most of them, but the ones I felt confused on (like Bruno) I spent maybe 10 minutes. I thought for sure Mark Rylance was SiFe though! FiNe-Si isn't a shade I've seen very often, but then ^ bellabellas86 , you picked up on his type right away
This really isn't an art one can accurately practice in haste, but I think you brought up a good point too Bella, that exposure to all the types is important for building a reliable perspective.
What cracks me up is Alerith's score. It's either 4/4 or 1/4 usually.
lol Well you have told me I tend to be 'black and white' so! hehe, y'know I'm thinking it might be a good starting practice for us to bring up your mindmup and just look through 5-10 samples of each type. That way lack of familiarity would be a bit less of an issue.
oh, and the percentages you worked up are quite fascinating! At this point we can say that the practice of Cognitive Type vultology yields ~70% accuracy in readings on average, which isn't bad compared to other systems.
Last Edit: May 22, 2017 17:55:08 GMT -5 by Alerith
Mark Rylance tripped me up because I have a friend with the exact same Ji/Ne/Si/Je proportions, but TiNe. Like a "cousin" shade or some such. SiFe was my alternative, though. His physiology could easily pass for most SiFe-Ne with those bushy eyebrows and winsome grin.
Also interesting that nobody got 0/4 on anything.
Last Edit: May 22, 2017 18:09:18 GMT -5 by Zweilous
I quite dislike patterning this after my own scores and prefer to look at it as a mutual attempt to get at some consensus. I'd like to explain my reasoning for the typings and let you guys decide what you think. Se-lead Bruno Mars: Although I now think SeTi, my first impression of Bruno was SeFi. Similar to SeFi Bam Margera. I've been looking at his life in detail, trying to understand what's going on. There are a few important elements I've discovered. He is Hawaiian, and anatomically Hawaiians have broader square faces, with flatter cheeks, which creates the look of Fi-breaking-through. He has a naturally high voice, similar in tone to Justin Bieber. It's possible his voice is just high instead of whispy; the two not being the same thing, but often crossing over.
He grew up with 5 sisters and no brothers. Which has a tendency to make men more effeminate. And he's also been imitating Elvis since he was 4, including the asymmetrical lip thing. However, after watching 5+ videos of him and freeze-framing his lips I can find almost no real involuntary asymmetrical expressions. His mouth area animates entirely like an Fe/Ti one, despite the Fi-breaking-through. He also doesn't display very much snippiness.
However, because of that lack of snippiness, I considered FiSe for him momentarily, as that would make sense of the lack of Te, within the narrative of Se+Fi and an exceedingly Michael Jackson-esque voice. I think this is what Amsterdam was getting at. In either case his psychology is clearly Se-lead. SeFi is a smaller possibility in my mind but not zero.
SeFi Alessia Cara: She seems a pretty straightforward SeFi. Standard in relation to others found in the SeFi raw footage video. A little bit on the Fi-heavy side, I would say, but not enough to obscure the Se dominance. If you guys have any questions about her, though, let me know.
SiTe Elizabeth May: She also seems pretty straightfoward as an Si+Te user. It seems there was some differences in readings between TeSi and SiTe. This is probably natural considering the lack of attention that's been given to SiTe. What tells this apart is her focal presence. Almost always she keeps a fixed gaze, and has a lack of Te rattling/jittering or accentuation.
She also has a characteristic lack of polish, which Te-leads do carry. It's something we see in people like SiTe George Bush and Brian Williams above. The mouth moves very asymmetrically down below while the eyes tunnel-focus forward. In this respect Elizabeth is a very standard/straightforward SiTe woman.
PiJe Tim Cook: Clearly a conductor type, and recessive/introverted in energy. But anatomically it's more ambiguous. Actually I'm still not 100% sure of his type. He appears to have pretty fair/strong Ti, in the way he pauses and is methodical in his articulation. His mouth has some apparent Te/Fi anatomy which is problematic.. but the actual pattern of his articulation is Fe pushes with coordinated delivery, toggling back and forth with Ti's deflation. All within a drift-and-just pattern. But actually I must digress on this one until I get more information. As I haven't found a shade that matches. PiJe is certain, but which one is unclear to me atm.
SiFe Bradley Cooper: For this one I was simply going too fast at first and went with NiFe, but later review shows SiFe. Stupid blunder. He's got a very similar shade to FeSi John Iadarola. But also Brad Pitt and all those other Fe heart throbs. Also, he's fairly Fe heavy as well and in some interviews I thought Fe-lead. Almost everyone seems to have guessed some form of high-Fe type for him so that's assuring.
TeSi Amy Schumer: She was someone I quickly came to conclude "oh! NeFi". Was similar in form to Vanessa Woods and some other NeFi females that are Ne+Te. So I went with NeFi-Te. However, upon closer investigation I realized her Te articulation was dead-on, non-stop and her energy is conductor energy. It's not disarmed, suspended and fluid in the way NeFi's are. It's very buoyant and energetic, but it's still honed toward a certain execution. What Ne looks like in an NeFi is more free-floating and aimless. Amy is instead the same shade as TeSi Adele, TeSi Tina Fey, and TeSi Drew Barrymore. It's important to keep this TeNe group seperate from the NeTe group,
^ here for example you can see that directive/conductor priority. The eyes are more Si/settled than Ne/naive, the Te tension is more contained within the are around the mouth rather than spreading widely and affecting the rest of the face. Added to everything else, it becomes clear that her energy is more Te than it is Ne, although both are very strongly present.
SiTe Bill Hicks: This was another tricky, whose eyes are a bit concealed. It's easy to see the Te/Fi resting under a P-lead psychology. I think most of us concluded that part accurately. His Te is very nonchalant and a bit calloused/dismissive. His comedic acts capitalize on this, in a similar way to how other Te comedians do. It's a very similar shade to SiTe Rainn Wilson:
Si+Fi Mark Rylance: Now this was by far the hardest sample, at least for me. As I mentioned I just picked whatever came out and I've never seen a sample like this before. It's a combination of Si+Fi that has yet to be documented. Strangely, it comes right after our first sample of an Si+Ti pairing. We're filling in the gaps slowly.
Anyhow, here is what we find very distinctly:
<---- Si fixed stare w/ Fi wobbling mouth (upper-right lip pull)
<--- Fi giddiness and disarming radiating energy (so cute!)
<--- Fi Giddy/Gimpy Giggle + Fi breaking through cheeks
<--- Si Fixed Gaze + Wobbling Fi lip... transitioning into Si scowl
Looking at this interview...
The first few seconds show a characteristically disarmed/seelie FiNe expression Despite his age, he acts like a child. An eternal child. Very Ne with Fi in energy.
But then further on at 0:42+ We continue seeing the giddy Fi energy except the overall gait or posture of his is super inertial, with an often completely fixed Pi gaze, and forward jutting. Looking at this all further, and watching a few more interviews, I think he may actually have high-Fi within an Si-lead scaffold. So a seelie Si(Fi-Te)Ne. Medain
His vultology comes somewhat close to SiTe George Bush just superficially, given he has a similar breaking of the cheeks and gimpy energy for an Si-lead. Except Mark definitely has Fi ego associated, not Te.
Actually yes, looking at this next one below, we can see the Pi-lead posture unbroken.
...And this one is much more full of Fi signals and clear than the other ones. We hear the seelie voice here as well.
TeNi Liz Hernandez: This one was also straightforward for me, although I see it wasn't as straightforward for some others here. It may be because I have over a dozen TeNi female examples in my database within this specific shade:
The ones in the green box are probably even closer to her, but they're all essentially the same person!
Also, TeNi women don't look like TeNi men. Usually TeNi women try quite a bit harder to be socially on point, because of the female tilt in expression. So that's something that usually has to be accounted/corrected for. But once you see the TeNi female variant, it's hard to mistake it.
SeFi Isabela Moner: This one I did a terrible job with, because I presented a poor video for you guys. Here are other videos of her that more properly review her vultology.
Here we can see a pretty clear SeFi vultology. And not only in these videos above, but in her channel with is very iconically Se in nature (makeup, singing, etc). She's actually a vlogger as well as an actress. I've been trying to think of why I saw NeFi the first time and I think it's because she would do these:
^ but this is a noob mistake. These are circumstantial expressions of fear, as per Paul Ekman, not expressions of Si recall/scowling. The way we know is by the context surroinding the expression. She says "a little intimidating... actually a lot intimidating" right when this happens at around 0:12-0:15. Rebecca Black does these too as a type of expression. It's emotional emphasis, not memory recall. Despite this, some of you got SeFi right, excellent! You probably had a watch at other videos; great to do always. And I apologize for presenting a misleading video for this one.
I hope this helps clarify at least my own reasonings. As you can tell, I'm learning on the go as well, and revealing my own refinement process to you as it happens. And I'm really glad I got to see all of your gears turning as well - especially those of you who elaborated on your reasons.
For me, 2/10 of the samples were completely without direct parallel/precedent to me: Tim Cook and Mark Rylance. No sample to match them.
But one of them (Rylance) I suspect I've now been able to properly define. Which leaves 1/10 as a mystery. This is why I often say I feel my accuracy hovers around 85%-90%. Usually two of ten samples are new, but one of them is "cracked" while the other pends more data.
My notes were mostly stream of consciousness, with longer notes meaning more time spent. I think Mark was my longest one which I spent like 10-15 minutes on. The last two i spent like 2-5 on and the rest were in the 5-10 range.
Bruno: After 30 seconds of the video I'm seeing high Fe and most likely Ne/Si. This guy's a fucking charmer. Tentative guess FeSi. Mhmm. Definitely oozing Fe charm. Soft, playful Ne eyes and energy. More conductive than revising. Likely extraverted. FeSi, second choice NeTi (less likely) Wait, fuck, now i'm not as certain on Ne/Si. FeSi, FeNi, NeTi, SeTi. In that order. But yeah FeSi final answer (give me points if it's one of the other ones)
Alessia: Snippy Te movement. Frequent asymmetry and snarling of the mouth. Buoyant energy (Ne? or just Pe lead indicator?). Likelies: TeSi-Ne, NeFi-Te. NeFi-Te final.
Elizabeth: This lady's got a narrow mouth. Looks like more upward pulling mouth movement. Fi/Te. Introverted energy, seems to keep body within a structure, of sorts. FiPe? Eyes don't move from their target like at all. FiSe final.
Tim: Immediately his face and articulation seem to have a Te vibe but as he starts moving his hands it looks a lot more like Ti spidery/puppeteer/modeling hands. Natively introverted energy. Little flow to his body. Another Ji lead? TiPe? His eyes are tricky. Very squinty, hard to see. I'm getting a more Si vibe from his eyes than anything else. This guy is tough. TiNe-Si final answer. TiSe secondary guess.
Bradley: Fe smile and charm, hand movements convey emotional emphasis with a swelling push. Seems led by eyes and isn't very buoyant or jumpy so i'd think Pi lead. His eyes are tricky again, but I'm leaning toward Se/Ni. He doesn't seem like an NiFe to me, though. I'm undecided on NiFe and SeTi (with a third, more distant TiSe). I'll say NiFe as my final answer, i suppose.
Amy: Ne lead. boom. How could she not be? Her smiles are harder to parse. Often they seem meant to connect outwardly in the Fe way, but occasional snarls and asymmetry seem to happen. Hands are more flat and demonstrative than the kind of delicacy one would expect to see from Ti. NeFi final.
Bill: Nasal, monotone voice - Te/Fi? First big laugh immediately neutralizes - T>F. Eyes remind me of the picture of James Dean on the site's celebrity page. Maintain steady focus. Darting is more set than bouncy Ne. TeNi or NiTe? Pushes generally recede quickly. NiTe final.
Mark: warm Fe smile, Ti lack of tension. Second video shows an almost perpetual asymmetry pulling at one side of his mouth. Vultological indicator, or simply a natural kind of "errror" of nature? This guy feels like another tricky one. When he's on focus (second video where he's educating more so than conversing (at least in the bits I've skipped to)) his eyes are sharp and pointed with what looks like occasional Ni disengagement. But the first video his eyes seem more playful. There's a kind of spark to them every time he smiles that looks very Ne to me and his eyebrows have a type of expressiveness that i associate with Si. Oooh first video that smile (2:50 or so) looks exactly like Robin Williams. Fi/Te looking maybe more like it. Energy definitely introverted. His body weight rarely shifts (Pe) and his articulation is used for emphasis very sparingly. FiNe? SiTe? No. if he has Te it's low. Now that I've made the Robin Williams association it's very hard not to see that. He's got a kind and soft demeanor. We'll say FiNe-Si, final answer. (almost certainly wrong on this, i can feel it)
***I'm growing weary, these last to I'm rushing through even more than the others***
Liz: Snippy, big articulation. High Je for sure. Ne parodies in first vid? (her or whoever wrote the script for this video?). Doesn't seem Si heavy, though. NiJe/JeNi? May be format of videos but energy definitely seems forced outwards. JeNi? FeNi or TeNi, then. TeNi final. FeNi second choice.
Isabela: Scattered Ne energy. Ti/Fe articulation. NeTi? Yeah NeTi. Wait nope that looked Te, NeFi final. NeTi second.
Also now i'm thinking i could be off on schumer but i'm to lazy to take a second look