Calin: Long time no see! If you're having trouble identifying with Fe, for the record I can say that I would have given pretty much the same answers you did, the only difference being that you seem to focus a bit more on willpower and strength at times when I likely would have also highlighted a certain degree of opportunism/willingness to maneuver through change (also, I do vote and encourage people to do so, but agree that getting directly involved is a much more effective way to make desired changes happen). I'm also a 378 tritype, and although we're still exploring the way Enneagram type affects visual type expression, I still get the sense that it wouldn't affect overall J vs P priority in the psyche. Frequency, yes, but conducting vs revising has to do with an overall energetic slant being prioritized as a person's native psychological lens. An SeTi 8, for example, may use Fe more often and maybe even more comfortably than an SeTi of another type, but would still, at the end of the day, subordinate psychological rigidity to environmental exploration/perception. You are quite Se-heavy, I agree, but exploration/perception seems ultimately contained within an overall cognitive commitment to judgment/execution. I'm pretty comfortable agreeing with Collo and saying FeNi.
Calin You bring up a really interesting question with your enneagram tri-type. From my experience, conductor/reviser qualia fit very consistently, seemingly separate from enneagram type. However, it's a possibility that, given the existence of enneagram, it could manifest vultologically (though I would suspect differently than CT signals, probably having to do with one's emotional presentation.). Some forum members have actually been looking into this, and some correlations have been found: cognitivetype.boards.net/thread/1508/ct-enneagram-correlations It seems Je generally correlates with types 3 and 8, consistent with you, too. Though, to provide an example of an SeTi 8, here's one:
EjArendee also falls under the same subtype as Eminem: the anti-sage/anti-hero subtype. SeTis of this subtype house a more directive, antagonistic Fe. Perhaps directive Fe/Te correlate with the 8 type. All just theorizing for now, though.
Roughly a year ago he was typed by the VR team using the theory at that time. Over the course of a year, the theory has grown, including the addition of qualia, I believe. So, you're not really missing anything, the theory was missing a piece, and probably has many more pieces to incorporate.
Collo, a few others and I, had a conversation about conductor/reviser energy and concluded that:
Conductor energy comes from the Je function, not from the Pi function. Pi-heavy Pi-leads don't display pronounced or consistent conductor energy. And any amount of it we find in them is proportional to their prevalence of Je. As such it's not appropriate to assign conductor energy to both Pi and Je; it only applies and comes from Je.
By this token, it seems the conductor/reviser energy proves inconsistent in several cases. For example, SiFi Mark Rylance appears to have lots of reviser energy (although we can still tell Pi-lead but from the inertia and Si qualities, but not from any conductor energy).
Additionally, SiTi Hrafn seems to display what we've been calling 'reviser' energy ...lots of meticulous pausing and Ti doubt.
Also, SeFi-Te seem to display 'conductor' energy. But this makes sense when we reconsider that their ego-reliance on Je (where the conductor energy comes from) would give them that quality. The same goes for EJArendee above, who is SeTi-Fe but who (especially in other vids) appears very much to have conductor energy. Again because he's got his ego in the Je.
So we're scrapping the Conductor/Reviser qualia signals as an axis/dichotomy, because that qualia better represents Je energy only and Ji energy only, not collectively Je+Pi or Ji+Pe. And because tertiary reliance on a Je or Ji function will cause a shift in the energy of the person, accordingly.
We now go back to measuring types simply by what functions they have strongest. As we did before. So by this renewed definition... An Se+Fe type will have conductor (Je) and explorer (Se) energy. And an Si+Fi type will have worldview (Pi) and reviser (Ji) energy.
Essentially conductor energy is another term for articulator energy, and reviser energy is another term for compass energy. Ty and sorry for the confusion.
Calin Looking at the new video, Collo's NiFe typing makes sense. P-lead seems more likely. I'd also like to mention your identification with the Se function, psychologically, and how a NiFe typing doesn't illegitimize your self-assessment for two reasons: polar fetishism and balanced development. As Collo pointed out, your progression functionally is quite balanced and, therefore, identification with all 4 processes is expected (you even mentioned your identification with a subtype from each Beta type in your video). Even so, you might be thinking you should identify with Ni the most since it's your primary process. This is where polar fetishism comes in. In fact, I'm almost certain that I'm a polar type, as Collo has mentioned the prevalence of Pe within my typing video and also my personal identification with Se. If you'd like to learn about polar fetishism, here's an article on it (scroll down to Erifrail's post): cognitivetype.boards.net/thread/1489/anima-animus-projections
...In the video, I mention the fact that "my mind feels empty all the time", which actually coincides with the zen mental state of a Ni-lead
This seems to equate more with Ti than Ni, but I could be wrong. Also, something interesting regarding Se types from Nardi's book 'Neuroscience of Personality': "The Se types often show a "tennis hop" brain pattern...when [this] pattern occurs, all regions of the neocortex are low amplitude and out of synch. That is, each region keeps shifting frequency even though the brain as a whole looks inactive, perhaps even presenting itself on the EEG monitor as a black or nearly-black screen, as if the person is awake but unconscious." Nardi goes on to explain that this state is very effective and uses very little energy, but allows the Se type to respond very quickly to their environment - perhaps this low energy manifests as a feeling of emptiness + Ti? Per Nardi, Ni-lead types do "show a whole-brain, zen-like pattern", but "this pattern is typical of someone whose mind is awake yet relaxed" - this seems in contrast to what you describe your experience as well as the general Pe-lead restlessness I perceive in your vid.
...according to Dario Nardi, the brain scans of Ni-leadsreveal that they easily get "in the zone" - the state of flow which (according to Wikipedia) is characterized by:
- Intense and focused concentration on the present moment; - Merging of action and awareness; - A loss of reflective self-consciousness; - A sense of personal control or agency over the situation or activity; - A distortion of temporal experience, one's subjective experience of time is altered; - Experience of the activity as intrinsically rewarding, also referred to as autotelic experience.
That's pretty how I feel most of the time, and when I don't, I seek stimulating activities which allow me to get into that state.
Per the same book, Nardi believes Se-lead types are actually the ones that "easily go 'into the zone', a pattern of solid bright blue [on the EEG monitor], when engaging a crisis situation. A fun role-play scenario can evoke this response. As the situation becomes more dramatic and perilous, the neocortex is ever more likely to zone-in and remain there until the situation resolves." He goes on to say that "because their neocortex is often ready for tactical action [like the "tennis-hop" pattern description above], the Se types are frequently bored." This all seems to coincide with the "in the zone/state of flow" description above and your frequent engagement in it (or seeking it out if you aren't) - CT says "...the SeTi will seek to explore their environment vividly and realistically".
I am still convinced you are SeTi - you exemplify all the Pe-lead signals consistently and sometimes strongly, e.g. Pe-1 Alert/Wide Eyes, Pe-2 Darting Eyes and especially Pe-5 Body Swaying. In contrast, I see much less Pi-1 Inertial Energy, Pi-2 Fixed Gazes, Pi-3 Diagonal Eye-Drifts, Pi-4 Worldview Rambles and Pi-5 Searching Scowls. Your Ti-3 Full Emotional Neutralization is very strong and there just are so few Fe signals as compared to Se, Ti & Ni. As compared to Ni-leads and especially rigid J-leads, I see so much more energy, restlessness and Se-8 Bodily Presence going on - your posture is not settled and the following statement doesn't fit under "quantitative", but you give me the feeling that you are bored but could spring into action at any moment
CT's SeTi description: "As a Pe lead, the SeTi will have a natural level of bodily excitation...the default energy of the SeTi is best described as amped...Se’s intensity won’t manifest as strong jitteriness but as a heightened concentration of presence...Their sharp eyes will steer the direction of their body and cause them to sway loosely, although moments of Ti momentum halting can cause temporary breaks in this fluidity.
Contrast the above description and your video with CT's NiFe description: "...this type’s eyes will be a prominent feature of their face, [but] not because of their alertness...Always relaxed and steady, [the eyes] will act as the unspoken chauffeur of their person and introduce at once the qualities of their entire demeanor. The eyes of the NiFe will carry a hypnotic quality, and this quality will be amplified by Fe’s emotional allure and charisma. The warmth and assurance of Fe will find a source of confidence in Ni’s steadiness, both psychologically and visually. The result is often a persona that feels parental; possessing great understanding and sense of mentorship. Their head will engage in a drift-and-jut rhythm seen in Pi lead types. First the eyes will drift to the sides, causing the neck to relax and the head to roll slightly towards the shoulders, then they will come forward again with a partially accentuated Fe head nod [instead, you seem to more often engage in Pe-surfing, i.e. Se is active in parallel with articulation]. Another signal comes into focus in this type from the secondary oscillation prioritizing Fe over Ti; the presence of apple cheeks.
For the most part, I do not find these qualities of the NiFe description within your vid or what I remember of your past vids.
I took the liberty of putting down your video transcript and some things pop out to me [my comments in red] - please let me know if you ever want me to delete this transcript I will be happy to do so:
"Hi guys. So I ended up reconsidering my type once again because the new qualia description got me thinking and I realize I do seem more like a conductor instead of a reviser [to me, this actually suggests you are a reviser type, as this is yet again another time you are questioning your CT because of newly presented information/perspectives]. Which implies that I make a great use of Je [this was covered by erifrail within this thread], so yeah, I don’t know if it’s my main functions as some of you suggest, I don’t know if I’m an FeNi because I basically relate to pretty much all of my cognitive functions. I relate to pretty much every beta type – I’m clearly an Se/Ni and an Fe/Ti user no doubt about that, but yeah, when it comes to type descriptions there really isn’t one that I can say that “All right this is it”. I do relate to the SeTi analytical sensationalist but I also relate to the FeNi visionary, to the NiFe (?) or to the TiSe athlete, so yeah.
However, when it comes to functions, I do relate the most to the Se/Ni axis. I kind of look like a judger but I don’t think I am a judger because I value experience and freedom above conceptual or ethical judgments [this suggests SeTi to me]. My mind feels pretty much empty all the time and it usually adapts to the circumstances [coincides with Nardi's descriptions mentioned earlier]. It also wants to control them because as I said, I do have heavy directive Fe. But my main motivation is not the control of the external world, that’s just a means to an end, that’s just a means to achieving the freedom that I cherish and value [this suggests SeTi to me].
So yeah, as I said, I relate to the Se/Ni axis more than my Fe/Ti axis. I also relate quite a bit to Ti dispassion because even though I can look very persuasive and passionate and all that kind of stuff, I can quickly neutralize all the emotions [quantitative data seems to suggest this as well] and I notice that I usually use emotions just for the impact that it has on other people – they admire passion and forcefulness and vitality and all that kind of s--- [this indifference to Fe and its typical aims hardly seems indicative of a Fe-lead or even Fe support; this reminds me of the SeTi description: "...often finding methods to optimize output and in the case of Fe, maximize social impact."]. However, I’m much aloof and detached on the inside or at least that’s how I see myself, I don’t really have strong emotions at all [suggests Ti-lead or support?].
What else should I say? I also relate to the Se need for stimulation because the lack of stimulation gets me quite restless. So yeah, I don’t know. As you see, I am kind of confused here because, yes, I agree with the fact that I do seem more like a conductor, therefore heavy Fe user, but I don’t really relate Fe as it’s really described – I don’t seek harmony, I don’t seek to direct the emotional atmosphere not necessarily, unless it is my benefit to do so. What I want from life is just to be able to do whatever the f--- I want whenever I want it [all of this does not indicate Fe-lead or Fe support to me - it is highly individualistic and does not have The Collective and/or ethical concerns at the forefront or even secondary]. So yeah, I think that’s more descriptive of Se rather than Fe but then again, as Collo said I might be an example of polarization, so I might be an FeNi, which due to Se-Ni-Ti (?) development ended up having unusual interests for an Fe type. But yeah, I don’t really know what to say more so I’ll let you guys decide – bye."
Overall, what strikes me about your transcript, is the lack of conceptual, abstract rambling - instead, it's quite straightforward and fairly succinct, reminding me of how other Se-lead and Se-support types that I've been around seem to communicate; I've worked with Ni-leads, and your transcript is generally not how they communicate, especially verbally.
Finally, your vid, transcript and posts on the forum remind me of each sub-type under SeTi - I can find something in each of them that reminds me of you. This is not really the case with the NiFe description or sub-types.
...take all that for what it's worth...
Last Edit: Jun 12, 2017 14:35:41 GMT -5 by Amsterdam
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot be changed without changing our thinking.” – Albert Einstein