It seems like quite a few people haven't yet submitted their replies. We're about 11hrs from closing time.
C'mon ppl!
edit: but if enough people haven't yet submitted theirs by then, I'll round the timeframe out to 48hrs, giving an extra 12hrs.... which will piss Jelle off. And u don't wanna piss Jelle off...
It seems like quite a few people haven't yet submitted their replies. We're about 11hrs from closing time.
C'mon ppl!
edit: but if enough people haven't yet submitted theirs by then, I'll round the timeframe out to 48hrs, giving an extra 12hrs.... which will piss Jelle off. And u don't wanna piss Jelle off...
I AM A BEACON OF PATIENCE AND SERENITY! *knocks everything off desk and Se stares at everyone pointedly*
...but yeh hurry up, guise. Or don't. That would be perfectly okay in principle. I will just continue to stare and breathe heavily.
Undoing the mind's idols and prejudice allows each element to find its place within a self-organising assembly. Deus sive Natura.
I would also like to point out that the sooner you submit answers, the sooner we can close the door on slowpokes...and the greater likelihood you have of *winning*. Do it for the win.
I need to know Janis Joplin's type. Went out on a limb there. @auburn what is the appeal process for disagreements? I am already planning to vehemently defend my answers against dispute using biography, quotes, additional visual evidence, and just plain good old fashioned sophistry.
jelle - as with before, i don't intend to present my answers as absolute, but look for consensus between us. and will definitely be up for discussion about any typings. looking forward to your thoughts!
Ok this time around I'm going to try something a bit different, and start out by having a discussion mutually about what their 5 types are. And after we hash out the discussion together - we can re-compare all of our initial guesses against a new conclusion.
Strength of Initial Guesses
As was noted in the last test, accuracy increases with not only one's personal database's size, but the more time spent on the sample. For most participants here I estimate the time spent per sample to be 3-8 minutes, which may not even represent your own highest accuracy. So alongside you guys, I made note of my own first impression of the 5 samples based on 5 minutes of footage each. Then what follows is a more thorough investigation ranging from 20-30 minutes spent on each sample. I'll make note of my progressions in though along the way:
Original vid source: youtube.com/watch?v=95ZhyLf0xLc
Julie Andrews is of the same shade as FeSi Rachel McAdams. She also has undertones of FeNi Cate Blanchett, as both share that rather English/Australian accent and "poised/refined" democratic persona. This reminds me of what Zweilous calls Directive + Positive Fe. She's directive and articulate, but agreeable. Here are just a few GIFs to show her vultology:
Je Projecting Hands + Fe Warm Swelling, then a warm Fe Headnod + Je Emphasis
Here at first she gives a projected hand gesture (Je) with embedded emotion (Fe) in it. There is a coordinated ethos, which extends also into her head shake behind the projecting hand; both working in unison also with her scrunching brow. This is a unified presentation. Afterward she goes into an On-Beat Fe emphasis headnod, which itself carries incredible emotional impact.
Adaptive Fe + Fe Zygomatical Smile + Warm Swelling Headnod
Here we see adaptive Fe receiving the commentary of the interview and keeping an on-beat rhythm to what they're saying. Her smile spans widely, with no asymmetry or conflicting pulls upward/downward. The she gracefully moves into another Fe swelling headnod with on-beat emphasis.
I noticed some readings of her as TeSi, but in her case any seeming Te/Fi tension is anatomical (as an English person, a level of that is typical and has to be corrected for). Admittedly there's a bit of general tautness around her mouth area but we must not over-rely on any one signal - as all the following dyamic signals are not present: Fi asymmetrical mouth expressions, Fi off-beat, Te snippiness, Te monotone speech, etc. Her articulation is speedy sometimes, but every statement is given attention and delivered with a package of emotion coating over it.
2. Larry Ellison = NiFe-Fe First 5 minute impression = NiFe
Original vid source: youtube.com/watch?time_continue=100&v=1cYy-b7qfCE
We see Ni very clearly in his eyes; sharpness, intensity, focus, fixed-gaze, hypnotic quality. But we also see it in his psychology, as in the way he talks about the eventual and inevitable evolution of computing into a new cloud-based medium. A visionary. To him, that eventuality (Ni) was already a type of "real" experience which simply hadn't arrived yet. Visually we see a very striking resemblance to NiFe's like Julian Assange and David Sinclair, and indeed he is similar in his Fe's darker tones. He has Directive + Negative Fe.
^ For those who estimated FeNi, we can see how he differs from FeNi in that his gaze never leaves focus, even when he's being forward and articulate. His head remain rather inertial compared to the FeNi here whose whole body jitters as a coordinated unit.
I see there were a lot of guesses for TeNi and NiTe! moreso than NiFe so the consensus is against me on this one. I'm wondering if you guys could explain your observations? Here is what I see...
Ni Hypnotic Eyes + Conductor Energy ("Forward") + Fe swelling push (hand gesticulation)
Ni hypnotic/piercing eyes + Conductor Energy ("Forward") + Fe/Ti meticulous hands
There is a "hunter"-like quality to him, as he seems to be in an antagonistic relationship with other corporate leaders like Larry Page. I can see how this may appear to be unseelie Fi, but what I see from him is not sassiness or haughtiness, but a kind of confrontational/aggressive shaming... especially as evident in the second video sent.
Delving deeper into his psychology, we also see (along with Steve Jobs (who was an avid fan of Japanese culture/aesthetic) who was his best friend) a respect for asian philosophy, culture and idealisms -- which is itself characteristically introverted Beta.
There is a "minimalist" flare to him too, seen in how he wanted to minimize the compartmentalization (Ne/Si) of computers done by Bill Gates (Delta) -- and go for a sort of inter-connected/web-like central system/concept. We can see, in fact, the Ne/Si vs Ni/Se philosophies of design in the very approach that Larry uses against Bill.
3. Arianna Huffington = FiNe-Te First 5 minute impression = SiTe
Original vid source: youtube.com/watch?time_continue=50&v=2jgwa3AP4kA
At first glance, Delta is very apparent in Arianna for me. However, her function order presents a challenge. TeSi seemed possible, but I landed first at SiTe because she retains a relatively fixed Si stare in many interviews and she lacks the degree of 'snap' to her gesticulations which comes with Te-lead. Native introversion seemed appropriate. Yet, equally so she retains a very rigid J-lead posture. Looking more closely I realize she's an identical shade to FiNe Ingrid Betancourt.
I was quite skeptical at first, with how business-like she was... and how her qualia points to high Si+Te at a glance, but looked anyway. To my shocking surprise I dove into her psychology to find this:
With titles such as...
- The Fourth Instinct: The Call of the Soul - Mindfulness: Finding Peace in a Frantic World - The Sleep Revolution - How to Overthrow the Government
...she's actually exceedingly anti-Te. In this way she's exactly like FiNe Susan Cain who writes about the need for Quiet in a world that can't stop talking. Arianna has written multiple books relating to the need to return to tranquility, peace, to our Humanity, to honor our bodies, to not fall into the trap of burnout (in the present Te epidemic of the USA). She is essentially fighting back against the Te of the American culture. We also see in her aspects of the more Feminine Fi character, in titles such as...
- The Female Woman - Maria Callas: The Woman Behind the Legend - The Gods of Greece
...with the latter being a Jungian-esque book and look at mythology demonstrating an even deeper immersion not only into a native INF temperament, but an overall Fi-guided Life mythos in her. We can see then, that her apparent high-Te personality is actually due to exceptional development. She is, at age 64, entirely conscious in all her functions... and I must say, an amazing testament to her type and quadrant.
She has developed her Si enough to write 14 books about her discoveries, she's developed Fi enough to not yield on her principle values and remain an integral and outspoken person regarding the need for self-care, she's developed her Te enough to run one of the most successful journals in history, and she's receptive enough in Ne to entertain a plethora of ideas and stitch them together with the above three.
We see her self/life/personhood oriented approaches in things like her nap areas, and overall advocacy for Being a Fearless self, in love/life/work/etc.
J-lead Rigid posture + Ji receding energy + Ji meticulous hands
4. Tina Turner = SeTi-Fe First 5 minute impression = FeNi
Original vid source: youtube.com/watch?v=UgtEeU_DDWY
For Tina, my first impression was FeNi, similar to other Fe-lead women like Iyanla. But looking closer, the momentum of her Pe is quite obvious and overwhelming. Looking into her lifestyle, she is quite Pe-oriented in general and is an explorer. I see many of us agree on SeTi for her so I won't go into too much detail, but please feel free to prompt me for more info on her.
5. Janis Joplin = NeFi-Fi First 5 minute impression: FiNe
Original vid source: youtube.com/watch?v=Pvipz47v8nQ
This one was another one I learned quite a bit from. Janis first comes across as your iconic FiNe Eclectic Fairy, of the Aurora Aksnes variety. But as I started a deeper review of her character + vultology, I quickly noticed just how much Ne she has! Energy everywhere, running beneath the seemingly dominant Fi airy demeanor. Her mannerisms in the source video are actually exceedingly similar to a hybrid between NeFi-Fi Florence Welch's delicacy + NeFi Jennifer Lawrence humor.
^ Here we see how she compares to other NeFi-Fi samples.
Psychologically speaking, she admits to (and embodies) being quite situationally oriented - going with whims and not having many fixed views. This is entirely opposite of what we'd expect from an Fi-lead psyche, or J-lead psyche in general. She's flow-based, receptive, open-ended, and also very buoyant. Although, she is definitely an Fi subtype... and I wouldn't entirely rule out FiNe as an option. For the second vid of her I added to PM's... I selected one that showed her Fi-heaviness... in an attempt to make it easier for you guys (cuz I thought she was FiNe at the time!) But I think that one likely made it more confusing. >.> I apologize for that.
Ok, so these are my evaluations of the 5 samples. I wonder what you guys think?
Ok, here's everyone's estimates and how they all compare! (Again I use my scores as a comparison point only as a formality, but I could be wrong as well! We'll hash out the details together)
Name
Julie Andrews
Larry Ellison
Arianna Huffington
Tina Turner
Janis Joplin
Similarities to Aub's 5 point
Similarities to Aub's 20 point
snoopsik
FeSi
NiTe
FiNe
SeTi
NeFi
4/5
19/20 (95%)
Zweilous
FeSi
NiTe
FiNe
SeTi
NeTi
3/5
18/20 (90%)
Alerith
FeSi
NiFe
SiTe
NeTi
NeFi
3/5
17/20 (85%)
Jelle
FeSi
NiFe
TeNi
SeFi
NeTi
2/5
16/20 (80%)
Ozman
FeSi
NiTe
TeSi
SeTi
FiSe
2/5
16/20 (80%)
Nadia
FeSi
SiTe
TeSi
SeTi
FiNe
2/5
16/20 (80%)
Blank
SiFe
TeNi
FiNe
SeTi
FiNe
2/5
16/20 (80%)
BellaBella
FeSi
FeNi
SiTe
SeTi
SiFe
2/5
15/20 (75%)
Jacob
FeSi
TiSe
TeSi
FeNi
FiNe
1/5
14/20 (70%)
Puffs
NeFi
NiTe
TeNi
SeTi
SiTe
1/5
13/20 (65%)
Mochimochi
FeSi
NiTe
SiTe
NeFi
SiFe
1/5
13/20 (65%)
Bugslife
FiNe
NiTe
TiSe
SeTi
SiFe
1/5
13/20 (65%)
Mikesilb
NiFe
TeNi
TeNi
SeTi
TiNe
1/5
12/20 (60%)
h
FiNe
TeSi
FiSe
SeFi
SiTe
0/5
12/20 (60%)
Linus
FiNe
TeNi
TeSi
NeFi
FiSe
0/5
11/20 (55%)
TBerg
NiFe
TeNi
TiNe
FeSi
FiSe
0/5
10/20 (50%)
This is highly encouraging! And quite interesting to see as an objective measure. The 20 point measure would have it so that 50% is exactly no better than guesswork. But all guesses are at or above 50%, and quite a few in the 80%+ range. This means that objectively speaking, we are indeed seeing similarities and properly identifying them in an organic/uncontrolled settings.
Now to see what the consensus is, without revolving it around any one person's scores:
Group Consensus
Name
Highest Consensus
Second Highest Consensus
Julia Andrews
FeSi = 9
FiNe = 3
Larry Ellison
NiTe = 6
TeNi = 4
Arianna Huffington
TeSi = 4
FiNe = 3, SiTe = 3, TeNi = 3
Tina Turner
SeTi = 9
SeFi = 2, NeFi = 2
Janis Joplin
FiNe = 3, FiSe = 3, SiFe = 3
2 = NeFi, NeTi, SiTe
By this measure, I got a score of 17/20 (85%) compared to the group consensus. Still not bad!
So it seems from the above that Larry Ellison = NiTe, Arianna Huffington = TeSi, and Janis Joplin = FiNe (alt: FiSe, SiFe) Interesting!
<spoiler> I actually woke up 5:30 (it's morning over here) which isn't unusal per se, the freaky thing though is that I ROSE instead of going back to delicious sleep another hour before work. Had been dreaming about this CT-thread and my subconscious anticipation managed to pull me out of bed. This never happens. Except when I have to catch a morning flight. Ne-heavies - here's a free morning hack for you! (Btw, how do I insert a real spoiler? Someone help?) </spoiler>
Ok, so my original notes + additional in blue. I basically agree with all Auburn typing, except Larry Ellison who really confuses me.
1. Julie Andrews - FeSi FeSi or FeNi. I'll go with FeSi, due to her eyes jumping around so much, a la Ne.
2. Larry Ellison - SiTe SiTe: Si-fixed eyes, eye-centric face, private Fi-ish laugh. Agree with Ni psychology. His eyes just looked a bit more Si to me. Dunno, sure they're hypnotic. But also kind of dull, almost looking through the person he's speaking to. (Or could that actually be a trait of Ni too?). And what about his laughs at 09:10-09.16? This video.
3. Arianne Huffington - TeSi Je-lead? Exacting hands and nods. Rigid posture. She has those lines around her mouth that looks Te. (Help me here, is that related to Te? Remember seeing a post about it, but too much in a hurry right now to look it up.) Doesnt show many Pe-signs. I see a lot of Pi. Hmm, hard one. I really need to study Te-leads more to tell, but heck, let's say TeSi.
4. Tina Turner - SeTi Definitely PeJi. But not very sure of the more specific. She has a very wide smile, yet there's often a tension around her nose which looks more Fi-like. She seems to do Ne-tangent hopping. In this interview she has this almost constant giddy energy about her, like she is just going to tell you the funniest secret. But looking at other (younger!) videos her eyes looks more Se, and she is more collected. I think I'll settle with SeTi.
5. Janis Joplin - FiNe FiNe! Fi-wounded brows all over the place lol. Eyes look more Ne-naive than Se-intense. Although I'm biased as I remember seeing her being typed as Fi-lead somewhere in the forum.
I'm a bit busy right now, so I'll have to do it one at a time rather than all at once. I'll start with Julie Andrews. I think this is what threw me off: "I noticed some readings of her as TeSi, but in her case any seeming Te/Fi tension is anatomical (as an English person, a level of that is typical and has to be corrected for). Admittedly there's a bit of general tautness around her mouth area but we must not over-rely on any one signal..." I was trying to watch her overall body movements and her hand movements, and they came off as more Fe/Ti. This seemed confusing, so I decided to check out some older videos of her to see if anything changed. Check out this one:
Admittedly, now that I'm seeing it again, there is something rather directive about her style. However, my first impression was of a Ji-lead, and saw something emotive and pained in it that I'd associate with an Fi-lead rather than a Ti-lead. It seems I don't have to explain the perceptive functions. There was something about her that reminded me of Diana Spencer, though it's more a physical resemblance than anything else, it seems. Yeah, I can agree with FeSi.
"we're fumbling fools ignorant of ourselves" - Auburn "the depths of dark Fe can go beyond our deepest fears" - Commakaze