Regarding how, it's different for each type because the process that needs development is in a different position, but development usually happens in two ways:
Judgment Processes:
The judgment processes develop via opposition/argument/debate. A person like, say, Richard Dawkins, whose had several hundred if not thousand debates in his lifetime with colleages has had to polish not only his primary Judgment process but also bring forth the other half of it. When a type that holds T > F, debates with a type that has F > T, and they bring forth an ethical value -- an immature T>F may scoff at it and depreciate it. But if the argument of the F>T user is concise enough, it'll push the T>F into a corner where they have to consider the importance of having an ethical position.
It happens at different times but Judgment-leads eventually learn that logic and ethics operate on the same premises and are likewise valid criteria that they need to have an unambiguous stance on. An example of someone who has good Etho-Logical integration would be Capt.Picard from Star-Trek. The ability to make a decision that is simultaneously logically sound and ethically ideal, and to make it at every turning point, is really the ultimate challenge of a J-lead. For this, debate partners are great sources of stimulation and growth.
Perception Processes:
The same principle applies, except debate doesn't directly work for these processes. What works is showing. Exposure. If a Pi-lead is stuck with a certain viewpoint, debating with them in the J-sense won't necessarily alter what they know to be true about the landscape of the world. Although a J-lead may successfully corner a Pi-lead in an argument, the Pi-lead might see it as just them having lost at a game. What has more impact is taking them to a place that contradicts their experience and where they can't ignore the new information.
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Growth/Development is truly just the refinement of one's ability to discern and perceive more keenly. The psyche will resits alteration to its modus operandi unless it is confronted with a scenario that it can't work around but must confront, and which requires a different method in order to manage it. People who are not developed have not been challenged.
However, there's a difference between that and oppression. Being challenged is one thing, but facing opposition such as that of an irrational parent does not stimulate growth. If a debate never resolves, but instead remain a point of "agree-to-disagree" for both parties - the growth completely stops. Nothing new is learned, and their presence/stance becomes no different from a physical obstacle in real life. Something that is just "there" and which one has to navigate around.
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You may be asking about other more specific aspects, though? Like how to ungrip someone who has bitter-Fi, or how to help a bipolar Fe-lead? (if not, sry for the ramble that follows) Things like that are more specific, and involve another person. One thing about modern psychology that I disagree with, but which seems almost inescapable, is that things are taken dispassionately. I've not found a way to cure unhealthy emotional worlds than to have someone who knows what they're doing, go into your emotional world with you and seek to mend it. This requires firstly, a personal attachment to the other person in order to build enough trust to let them in that far.
It also takes acceptance from them of your actual nature/type/development, and a delicate untangling of each dark-judgment it holds. What creates pronounced polarities in the emotional world is the accumulation of many negative ethos-judgments, which either force the user to exist in a position where they represent and embody that very injustice (i.e. they become an avenger) or they detatch from it and it becomes a dark shadow in their heart to retain a light exterior.
At least for Fe users, I've found than a burried etho-judgment is resolved and dissipates if it is acknowledged by others. This is because in being acknowledged it is fulfilling its role of moving the social dynamic to align more with that judgment. If the judgment is irrational, then acknowledging at least how it could have been rationalized that way, from the data they had on hand, suffices. I have never deeply explored the emotional world of an Fi user, so I really don't know enough about them.
Cognitive type is inescapably linked to emotional traumas, suppressions, difficulties because of the way sensory input is rationalized to create those distortions. But I'm ignorant about a whole lot of this..
I don't know yet if I'm J-lead or P-lead but a problem I often face is that I tend to shy away from serious debates (especially in politics or other serious matters) except probably with my mother or brother. This is because I have two fears : not being articulate enough, for example if I don't express myself well enough or don't use clever well informed arguments (low Si and Te ?), and being intimidated or emotionally paralyzed by the other (often with Te-leads or aux Te). Maybe it's a lack of experience or I REALLY have a problem with self-confidence, particularly with my father (hardcore Te). It is almost impossible to contradict him, he's invincible lol.
As for acquiring new infos, I tend to be biaised toward my initial gut feeling (something sounds right to me) and resist the contradicting info especially when they don't sound solid enough. I won't have the curiousity to dig in order to alter my judgements. It's only if the evidences are hard to avoid, then I change my mind. I don't know if it's the sign of being J-lead.
Do you think Pe-lead are more influenceable (is it English?) and open-minded than judgers ?
I do get a Pe-lead vibe from you, just based on text. Not that that's too reliable tho!
Um, I really can't say. Ji-leads as well as Je-leads have their form of stubbornness. Pi-leads definitely can as well, however a lot of Ni-leads are very peculiar in their form of stubbornness - it isn't your typical close-mindedness. Pe-leads are the ones most receptive to new information and the alteration or updating of views, on average.
Auburn Thanks for the info. Remember when I said that my Se sometimes frustrates me because of its open-mindedness? So, I was thinking that maybe if I focus on "developing" Ni, that would go away a bit. What do you think?
i thought this from the first time i came accross the theory, and i have a personal opinion, though i'm neither a psycologist or a professional typis : do introspection and do what's more natural for you is my answer. Personal experience: some months ago i started to be interested in personal growth, so i started to read many psichology articles, most of them are about NLP and i find them really confusing, and quite horoscopesque, but sometimes they can be useful. I started to open my mind with more people, to share my opinion and discuss with the others. Second, i started to do more physical activity, and surprisingly, it helped me to have more lucid thought, more concentration and more ideas, and a better mood as well. Then, i applied myself more in music, my old approach in this was quite extemporaneous in the armony, i was concentrated more on the arrangement than the music itself, so i started to give more attention to the harmony, these are two examples: Improvvised music (it was a joke, don't care about my singing and lyrics >.<): (...) Thought music (I'm going to delete it in two days, is still a demo after all): (,,,) the differences between the two are evident.
elly in my opinion, all you need to improve yourself is to do something you like giving more effort, and do physical activity . I think a good walk can be really helpfull for your Se, it gives you a contact with the external world in a more physical way, and you probabilly need it (in my opinion, everyone needs this).
Auburn Thanks for the info. Remember when I said that my Se sometimes frustrates me because of its open-mindedness? So, I was thinking that maybe if I focus on "developing" Ni, that would go away a bit. What do you think?
Mmhm, I think you're right. more Ni development would help with this tendency to be too open-ended. I'm curious about what you feel unsure about though, is it just in every aspect? I remember you mentioning in your bio that you generally knew how things worked at an early age. What is it that confounds you?
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The NiTe I've known didn't know everything, but they weren't bothered by not knowing. If asked a question outside of their range of perception they'd just say "I dunno" or "It's probably ___", and continued. The answer eventually becomes apparent to them in the future, if it's relevant in any way, and if it isn't, then there's really no pertinent issue with not knowing the answer. Whereas when I'm asked something I don't know, I sit there and fry my brain trying to figure it out, whether it has a practical application or not. (I wonder if you approach things more like me/high-Pe users.)
I do get a Pe-lead vibe from you, just based on text. Not that that's too reliable tho!
Um, I really can't say. Ji-leads as well as Je-leads have their form of stubbornness. Pi-leads definitely can as well, however a lot of Ni-leads are very peculiar in their form of stubbornness - it isn't your typical close-mindedness. Pe-leads are the ones most receptive to new information and the alteration or updating of views, on average.
Interesting... Well, I'm definitely Pe-heavy, why I suspect Ne is because my mind is very scattered and I have periodical thirst for informations, unless I'm Se and I'm the same case as morsecode because frankly I don't understand Se. Also I understand more Si than Ni. I never experience the streamlined global vision of Ni/Se, my mind seems to work more like a library of various infos and memories of personal experiences. It's only laboriously and consciously that I try to make sense of it, probably through Ne.
I don't think one combo is better than the other nor do I try to convince myself that I'm Ne/Si, it just seems to naturally fit who I am...
Also, being Pe-lead, I'm must be a very peculiar kind then... I'm quite static usually and I'm very boring too lol. Maybe I use more my Pe on the internet because I'm more at ease at writing than speaking. I would add that I can think more carefully when answering on a forum than in real life where I tend to shut up or answer short answers.
About Ni-leads having their own form of stubbornness, I see what you mean thanks to my father hehe. They don't look that stubborn at first though they are indeed but it looks as if they were right anyway ^^
Last Edit: Jun 3, 2013 8:37:52 GMT -5 by peppergirl
I'm certainly lazy... I introspected myself a lot, especially during my mid-twenties. I'm actually analysing myself with someone. I hope I grew a bit even if the results are not obvious for me yet, I tried to take things less personnally and understand more the other's perspectives. And the most important, developing my own opinions and be less influenced by others, in particular my father. I realize I talk a lot about him lol, but I can't lie, he exterted too much influence on me, to the point of hiding what I think/like from him. I'm not the only one it seems though, he's very charismatic and intelligent (I don't idealize him, he's just like that). Well I always had my own tastes/opinions but I never really assterted them to others, as if I was ashamed or that others wouldn't take me seriously. Now I care less and less, I only wish I was less fearful earlier, but I can't go back in time.
I listened to your music, I especially like the "thought" music ^^, very relaxing and perfect to listen while lounging in the sun I used to play the piano and am quite good at it but for some reasons I lost interest in it several years ago. That's a pity because I could have persevered but I can't when I'm no longer passionate about it. Maybe it will come back, I don't know. Creativity and perseverance are probably the things I admire the most because I seem to lack them nowadays. I never composed music though, I'm just not inspired :/ Yet I would love to be able to create music.
Wow, I talked a lot about me! Time to stop, otherwise I will write a novel.
Usually, when I have an answer for something I still think in the back of my head that it may not be the correct answer and that there are different ways to look at it. While this may be good to some extent it always makes me doubt myself. Not too long ago I realized the "truth" about myself and my life and this was something I was very sure of. If I think about it now, it's different. It's as if new doors have opened and I see all of them as being "equal" possibilities/answers. When I was younger I don't think I had a very good use of Se compared to now. I've grown up with close SeFi and FiSe friends and I'm pretty sure that made me "develop" Se.
I think Si can be developed by imagining situations/ conversations. Imagine you're talking to someone, and they ask you questions about your opinions or whatever. I think this develops Si, and I have established a lot of viewpoints by elaborating on a view/belief. I'm actually not sure why I prefer to do this over just directly asking myself a question; maybe it's just some kind of way to imagine that a viewpoint is logical/works and others can agree with it.
I think that over-developing functions would be bad though. If you, for example, over-develop a Pi function, you may become too close minded. Or if Pe is too developed, you may not be sure of anything at all.
While I'm unsure whether worldview/beliefs/values directly relates to a certain function, I have similarly to you experienced that what I know/believe in is clearer to me (it "comes" to me) when I am engaging with another person. Whereas when I am by myself, these views do not appear with the same clarity, as if I was unmotivated to do so. Instead I find myself spending time on exploring new information on topics of interest. For instance, the discovery of CT came through this deliberate exploring (though easy and fun), after "digging through" heaps of MBTI-related articles. Interesting as it was, the learning soon became unfulfilling, as many of these articles left me with lots of unanswered questions. However, I think the some of this process was necessary, in order for me to better discern that CT was indeed something of potential and value.
Anyways, about our experience that what one knows/believes in more easily emerges to one's consciousness when interacting with other people (or even imagining so, as in your case). I recalled Erifrail's chart of "function-wheels" that I recently saw on the boards somewhere, and thought that this effect perhaps is related to it. I'll try to insert the chart here (and here is some info on it, by Erifrail):
Hmm.. I don't know how to hide this in a spoiler-warning.. oh well. If we look at these models, we'll see that Pi is directly accessible through two of the wheels; Pi/Pe-wheel and Pi/Je-wheel. So latter wheel indicates that one of our main ways of using Pi is by engaging in Je. And Je is related to expression! Assuming that Pi indeed does relate to the sense of having one's knowledge/map clearer in the mind, the relationship between Pi/Je could be the reason why we enjoy easy/spontaneous access to our inner knowledge when interacting with others (or pretending to). Reason is because the JePi-wheel is actively engaged in/spinning when trying to explain (Je) something (Pi) to someone.
As a sidenote, I suspect that the reason I tend to explore rather than review when in my spare time, is because Pe is above Pi (perhaps) in my hierarchy of functions.. meaning that I would be a Ji/Pe or Pe/Ji, regurarly spinning my top white wheel, which is described by Erifrail as "the individual's native and easiest mode-of-operandi." This would perhaps explain my exploring tendencies when alone.. but this is all just speculation of course.
Being that you are a Pi-lead, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect that you should have more readily access to you "map". Perhaps the activity of engaging through Je kick-starts Si, through spinning the Je-Pi wheel, meaning that all types could benefit from using Je when trying to access Pi, or in more practical terms, deliberately attempt to express their opinions to "someone" when assessing what they know. This way of accessing Si would actually be your "native and easiest mode-of-operandi", as it is your top white circle. This process would also give some base to the notion of "teaching others (or pretending to), is the best way to teach oneself", which seem to work well for you. Though it would also make sense that one could access Pi by exploring through Pe (manifested as associations!), as this would spin one of the blue circles, and in your case, the largest one.
This doesn't directly relate to the thread's theme, but I think it's interesting. It would be nice if someone knowledge on this topic would review this.
Last Edit: Jun 4, 2013 4:32:32 GMT -5 by robinhood
robinhood I don't know if your post is meant for L or I since you mentioned "Si" but I still find it useful and everything you said made sense. I have troubles expressing Ni in Te quite often, so "developing" Te would maybe help me to easier get access to the Pi-Je wheel. In conclusion: in order to not be too open-minded because of Se, I need to focus on my Ni growth which can be done through Te.
Hehe, I tried to link the user "l" to the text, as the text was primarily meant as response to him, but I can see that it doesn't show very well.. your one-letter name is confusing!
I'm glad you find it useful, Elly. I'd like to emphasize that it's just speculation though, as I don't want to be the cause of any misunderstandings in the community!
Ohh I completely missed that.. @___@ haha. Yup, I definitely understand that, so far, it's nothing definite. Hopefully you'll get a reply from someone who has good knowledge about the subject.