Post by astrotheologian on Feb 22, 2018 16:13:08 GMT -5
I watched a few videos by a fellow from Youtube who claimed he was typed as an INFJ by someone here but in my opinion, he doesn't follow the functions in the way Carl Jung has explained them. (Mainly he displayed Te/Fi instead of Fe/Ti.) I can see where Vultology can go haywire and further cause confusion of development in people by mistyping them by eye movements and etc. You can have all of the eye movements you want to have but if you do not naturally value certain functions in your daily life, you are not that type. Second of all, how can you attach that back to cognitive functioning? How can you say, "This is the Ni stare?" -- There is really no such thing and to be honest, the closest thing that would come to that would that the Ni dominant would look spaced out from passively taking in Se data. (Due to Se being inferior.) How do you relate certain micro expressions back to the functions? There's no way to absolutely accurately do that. My question here is, how is Vultology an accurate way to type people when it is based on micro-expressions of the face? If someone's nose is generally up a little higher, that may cause their smile to follow suit...
How is this typing system at all in line with Jungian Typology? ..And would you agree that the basis of this Typing system is an Extraverted Thinking way to go about things? It seems farfetched to me how anyone with Ti in the ego stack could take Vultology that seriously but especially an INFJ who is Ni dominant, Ti tertiary and Se inferior.
My hunch is you're referring to our member chuck from TommorrowIsYesteday? We can address the issue of his type more directly, if that is the question at hand?
But as for your more general question:
How is this typing system at all in line with Jungian Typology?
This article provides a summary of the differences and similarities between the two.
..And would you agree that the basis of this Typing system is an Extraverted Thinking way to go about things? It seems farfetched to me how anyone with Ti in the ego stack could take Vultology that seriously but especially an INFJ who is Ni dominant, Ti tertiary and Se inferior.
It's an extroverted + thinking way of going about it, yes. But if you mean "Te" then I disagree. The joint use of extroversion + thinking can come from, say, an NeTi type or even a TiNe with developed Ne. Adam Savage is a famous NeTi who does external experimentation. I myself happen to be Ti-lead but use objective data for analysis because I pair my Ti castle construction with Ne/Si datasets. No singular behavioral outcome a person exhibits can be reduced in sterility down to one function, since each person uses all four functions in conjunction. What we see as far as manifest outcomes is almost always the result of function collaboration or at least tinging.
Second of all, how can you attach that back to cognitive functioning? How can you say, "This is the Ni stare?" -- There is really no such thing and to be honest, the closest thing that would come to that would that the Ni dominant would look spaced out from passively taking in Se data. (Due to Se being inferior.) How do you relate certain micro expressions back to the functions?
Sure thing, I'm more than happy to put forward evidence. I only ask that you give the idea a genuine chance? Lets assume for a moment that I am not talking necessarily about what Jung called Introverted Intuition (as I believe that applies more broadly to introversion + intuition), but some visual phenomenon that can predict elements of cognition. I can show you what this generally looks like with the following diagrams:
I realize it seems odd to suggest this, but the presence of this signal, in conjunction with the rest of Ni signals, positively identifies a certain type of cognition. If this were true we would expect to see that people with this signal share a certain psychology, and the only way I can prove this is with evidence. Part of the evidence for this is the following:
Discussing projections about the future (Ni anticipations (re: prophecies))
Discussing a level above "self-actualization" or Transcendence
Discussing Enlightenment & Presence
Discussing how there is no separate Self or Ego
Discussing the Fourth Circuit, in the 8 Circuit System
Discussing Mindfulness Meditation
Discussing philosophy, epistemology, biology
All the above samples are mystics in some form; displaying similar psychological tendencies/interests rooted around some esoteric belief in the interconnectedness of information, the existence of some governing force behind/underneath things, and/or generally discussing questions pertaining to the nature of consciousness, the nature of the psyche and spiritual transcendence or transformation.
This pattern can be seen repeated throughout the world in all demographics, wherein a strong presence of the aforementioned Ni signals is positively linked to mentalities and interests of this nature. The only caveat being that in some cases Se-leads carry Ni eyes (because Ni/Se is one pair) but in that case we instead see and positively predict the qualities of Se, which also carry a very specific nature and their own set of behavioral signals.
My hunch is you're referring to our member chuck from TommorrowIsYesteday? We can address the issue of his type more directly, if that is the question at hand?
But as for your more general question:
How is this typing system at all in line with Jungian Typology?
This article provides a summary of the differences and similarities between the two.
..And would you agree that the basis of this Typing system is an Extraverted Thinking way to go about things? It seems farfetched to me how anyone with Ti in the ego stack could take Vultology that seriously but especially an INFJ who is Ni dominant, Ti tertiary and Se inferior.
It's an extroverted + thinking way of going about it, yes. But if you mean "Te" then I disagree. The joint use of extroversion + thinking can come from, say, an NeTi type or even a TiNe with developed Ne. Adam Savage is a famous NeTi who does external experimentation. I myself happen to be Ti-lead but use objective data for analysis because I pair my Ti castle construction with Ne/Si datasets. No singular behavioral outcome a person exhibits can be reduced in sterility down to one function, since each person uses all four functions in conjunction. What we see as far as manifest outcomes is almost always the result of function collaboration or at least tinging.
Before I begin, Auburn I want to extend my apologies for coming across a bit flustered in my first post. (As I was because I do think 'Chuck' is an INTJ due to lack of any Fe expression in videos and lack of acccomodation & etc during debate.) Thank you for being kind to me, regardless of that.
I understand what you mean by TiNe or NeTi being experimental. I agree there because it's characteristic of Ti to develop an idea or a theory, then test it out in the objective. However, what I meant by Te as a function is that you use sensory data to create an efficient system that you apply to all. Instead of going by an analysis (Ti) of someone's mental state as Jung did, you are going by micro expressions (Se) for the system. (Te) I'm not saying it is one function alone but that it seems to me, for this reason Te the function is heavily relied upon.
Second of all, how can you attach that back to cognitive functioning? How can you say, "This is the Ni stare?" -- There is really no such thing and to be honest, the closest thing that would come to that would that the Ni dominant would look spaced out from passively taking in Se data. (Due to Se being inferior.) How do you relate certain micro expressions back to the functions?
Sure thing, I'm more than happy to put forward evidence. I only ask that you give the idea a genuine chance? Lets assume for a moment that I am not talking necessarily about what Jung called Introverted Intuition (as I believe that applies more broadly to introversion + intuition), but some visual phenomenon that can predict elements of cognition. I can show you what this generally looks like with the following diagrams:
I realize it seems odd to suggest this, but the presence of this signal, in conjunction with the rest of Ni signals, positively identifies a certain type of cognition. If this were true we would expect to see that people with this signal share a certain psychology, and the only way I can prove this is with evidence. Part of the evidence for this is the following:
Discussing projections about the future (Ni anticipations (re: prophecies))
Discussing a level above "self-actualization" or Transcendence
Discussing Enlightenment & Presence
Discussing how there is no separate Self or Ego
Discussing the Fourth Circuit, in the 8 Circuit System
Discussing Mindfulness Meditation
Discussing philosophy, epistemology, biology
All the above samples are mystics in some form; displaying similar psychological tendencies/interests rooted around some esoteric belief in the interconnectedness of information, the existence of some governing force behind/underneath things, and/or generally discussing questions pertaining to the nature of consciousness, the nature of the psyche and spiritual transcendence or transformation.
This pattern can be seen repeated throughout the world in all demographics, wherein a strong presence of the aforementioned Ni signals is positively linked to mentalities and interests of this nature. The only caveat being that in some cases Se-leads carry Ni eyes (because Ni/Se is one pair) but in that case we instead see and positively predict the qualities of Se, which also carry a very specific nature and their own set of behavioral signals.
Thank you very much for writing this post as it did open my mind quite a bit. I happen to already agree with your analysis concerning a spaced out look when it comes to Ni types. I also agree with the topics they will be interested in chatting about. Sometimes, my mind is so rigid, I need help to see other possibilities so thank you for taking the time out to address this matter, as it changed my perspective.
I do have one more question, kind person... How much do you charge people to get typed? I'm actually interested to see what you all would type me as.
Thank you very much for writing this post as it did open my mind quite a bit. I happen to already agree with your analysis concerning a spaced out look when it comes to Ni types. I also agree with the topics they will be interested in chatting about. Sometimes, my mind is so rigid, I need help to see other possibilities so thank you for taking the time out to address this matter, as it changed my perspective.
I do have one more question, kind person... How much do you charge people to get typed? I'm actually interested to see what you all would type me as.
Right, exactly! Also, no problem Thanks for taking a look at the data too, and feel free to ask any other questions.