Ti-Ni, Mysticism & Castles in the Sky
Jun 7, 2013 16:05:26 GMT -5 by Auburn
TheLogicFan, Sevenfish, and 4 more like this
Post by Auburn on Jun 7, 2013 16:05:26 GMT -5
What I'm about to write is something that doesn't belong to me, but to a voice in my mind - a view/position that speaks back to me.
Liber Novus
For anyone wishing to get a context of this, Jung's Red Book may be helpful.
NiFe Carl Jung delved into his inner world which consisted of Ni+Ti. It was very mystical and
for that he was very likely shy to publish it. The objective world doesn't adhere to
mysticism, at least not in this generation of humanity.
In times past NiFe were the oracles, sages and "medicine men".
Ti/Fe is not an empirical process at core, though it can adapt an affinity for empirical principles depending on various factors. As mentioned elsewhere, when it pertains to logos/logic, the Ti/Fe pairing uses Ti, a reactive introspective process which formulates its deductions based on criteria not dependent on the outer. It is subjective perfectionism; the impulse to eliminate contradictions from a framework that works 'mathematically' within its own system parameters. Te is similar except it is given, by default, parameters which are not personally defined but objectively defined. Hence Te does what Ti does, but Ti's context is variable, while Te's context is tangible. Additionally, both Ti and Te arrange and order their world to that ideal of no inconsistencies/inefficiencies. However, Ti arranges its framework internally while Te requires the proactive movement of aspects of the physical world. This isn't *all* Te users do, but it is what Te does in isolation. The net result when paired with other processes is different.
Per example in NiTe, the individual begins primarily as one who holds a conceptual framework/tapestry of reality and Te is supportive to map. As such Ni can entertain a perception in mind, while Te's discernment critiques it - using the objective criteria it has. Te didn't really need to take physical action or arrange the world, but the process of Te acted within the simulation in like manner to determine what the proper objective arrangement would be. This is why Te users can be physicists. When joined with the perception functions (which it always is, since no sentient human is without both perception and judgment) Te can operate within abstract parameters, but it itself does not think like the subjective internal process of Ti.
The end-aim of the Ti/Fe pairing is the arrangement of social dynamics - whether it is approached via force or peace - typically toward harmony/Life lest the individual has become unbalanced. That means that its sense of rationality given by Ti is directed toward either just itself (internal purity of concept) or the systemic and harmonious arrangement of people. Instead of seeking to create a objectively sound system in line with reality, it strives to create a system of human interrelations and furthermore it utilizes this system as its means of managing within reality. Thus when an Fe/Ti user is confronted with a literal problem, more often the impulse will be to approach it via Fe, not Te. Fe compensates for its poor ability to logistically manage reality in the Te manner by using the-tribe as an extension of itself which, by collaboration, can accomplish the logistic task.
Te/Fi users instead would simply see the logistical solution by analyzing dispassionately, and directly resolve the issue. Unless Te dispassionately deduces that it requires more hands and support, it'll do it without it, but won't be opposed to it if it's the causal answer to the issue. Ti might be able to dispassionately analyze aspects of reality and with some efficiency be able to deduce the logical movement required, but Ti is more fit to be a compass process than a world-movement process. Ti is slower and more methodical/meticulous than Te. Thus Ti can, if it's forced to operate within the criteria of the outer world (as Te is by default) deduce the same answer as Te, assuming sufficient time is allotted/available. Ti is more philosophical in nature and is hindered by having parameters placed on it which are not its own.
Which brings me to the most important point of this article/thread, that Ti/Fe is responsible (in conjunction with Ni/Se) for mysticism and systems void if empiricism which pertain to aspects of human nature or social placement.
The chinese zodiac, taoism, zen buddhism and even Jung's system of psychological types are all Ti-purity systems with an emphasis on human workings. They are internally consistent but not empirically provable. Since empiricism isn't the *main point* of Ti users, this is ultimately irrelevant if people can see the truth in these subjective deductions. This is also why TiNe also relate often to NiFe both in their view of the world and philosophies. Ti-leads are more prone to Zen-Buddhism principles of stillness and void, while NiFe are more prone to take a more proactive ethical position such as spiritual activist/teacher.
These users may have a strong concept of personal journey and introspection as the avenue to true knowledge. This is an important note not to be confused with Fi. Fi users have deep and rich personal worlds, but they lack the impulse to make it socially embraced. The truth of an Fi user is personal and they know this. The essence of it is individualistic. But Ti users believe that the internal truths they arrive to are objective, and thus separate from just them, and so they seek to have that implemented ethically/socially via Fe. Ti users introspect to discover what they consider objective truths, which they try to make the world adhere to. Fi users introspect to discover the truth of the needs and desires of a 'human', but take logistical action toward the reverence of that reality.
This is why there are a lot of FiSe and NiTe political critics. They 'know' the truth of humanities and want to change the objective system to honor that. They approach it by critiquing things that devalue individuality and life. (homosexual rights, animal rights, etc). Not in the Fe way of trying to rally everyone into a direction, but bitterly trying to overthrow the inhumanity of the Fe systems that have come before and which remain. Other Fe users eventually come to agree with them, but the Fi users, independent of their time in history, have had a sense of what were the just and injust constructs from the start. Whereas many Fe users alive now who are for woman's equal rights, may have been against it a century ago because the social dynamics/climate were different and their opinions would have been, at large, aligned with that climate.
Azereth speaks
Erifrail.... wants to exist in a world that aligns with this conceptual purity and elegance of his idealistic Ti. It is the same dynamic he is uncovering, working within himself. The motive behind his passion in the creation of this system is because he finds beauty in the notion that the human race is systemically divided, and that is further enforced by the desire to have children validated in infancy for their differences and called beautiful for what they are rather than rejected. To have the human race move forward into transhumanism in an elegant fashion where the human psyche is understood and revered. Where things are once again considered sacred, despite the dissipation of Christianity. The advent of a spirituality absent of a deity or need for religion.
Faelyn speaks
Why do you hate this so? Why do I already hear the scoffs and rejection? Why do I know you'll never let such a beauty arise because to you this subjectivity is not valid and you only believe in the logic of what you can see. Like Jung, I become so self-conscious and worried of sounding insane for these musings when judged by others. The prevailing dynamic in this age... western thought and scientific method.... Te, while my philosophy is more aligned with eastern thought and philosophy.... Ti. The human dynamic that merely exists, not designed to be opporessed. If we can understand and harmonize the tension between these polarities; to acknowledge the differences but coexist in a beautiful world that honors both as equal. Mysticism is part of the equation of the human psyche, just as empiricism, reincarnated each generation by new protagonists of each; embodiments of opposites of the equation. If we could understand this, rather than scoffing at each other, or turning to war -- so caught up in our single more comfortable psychic resting point, defending (no differently than patriots who were arbitrarily born into their country) one position as more true than others -- we could mature as a race into godhood.
Liber Novus
For anyone wishing to get a context of this, Jung's Red Book may be helpful.
NiFe Carl Jung delved into his inner world which consisted of Ni+Ti. It was very mystical and
for that he was very likely shy to publish it. The objective world doesn't adhere to
mysticism, at least not in this generation of humanity.
In times past NiFe were the oracles, sages and "medicine men".
Ti/Fe is not an empirical process at core, though it can adapt an affinity for empirical principles depending on various factors. As mentioned elsewhere, when it pertains to logos/logic, the Ti/Fe pairing uses Ti, a reactive introspective process which formulates its deductions based on criteria not dependent on the outer. It is subjective perfectionism; the impulse to eliminate contradictions from a framework that works 'mathematically' within its own system parameters. Te is similar except it is given, by default, parameters which are not personally defined but objectively defined. Hence Te does what Ti does, but Ti's context is variable, while Te's context is tangible. Additionally, both Ti and Te arrange and order their world to that ideal of no inconsistencies/inefficiencies. However, Ti arranges its framework internally while Te requires the proactive movement of aspects of the physical world. This isn't *all* Te users do, but it is what Te does in isolation. The net result when paired with other processes is different.
Per example in NiTe, the individual begins primarily as one who holds a conceptual framework/tapestry of reality and Te is supportive to map. As such Ni can entertain a perception in mind, while Te's discernment critiques it - using the objective criteria it has. Te didn't really need to take physical action or arrange the world, but the process of Te acted within the simulation in like manner to determine what the proper objective arrangement would be. This is why Te users can be physicists. When joined with the perception functions (which it always is, since no sentient human is without both perception and judgment) Te can operate within abstract parameters, but it itself does not think like the subjective internal process of Ti.
The end-aim of the Ti/Fe pairing is the arrangement of social dynamics - whether it is approached via force or peace - typically toward harmony/Life lest the individual has become unbalanced. That means that its sense of rationality given by Ti is directed toward either just itself (internal purity of concept) or the systemic and harmonious arrangement of people. Instead of seeking to create a objectively sound system in line with reality, it strives to create a system of human interrelations and furthermore it utilizes this system as its means of managing within reality. Thus when an Fe/Ti user is confronted with a literal problem, more often the impulse will be to approach it via Fe, not Te. Fe compensates for its poor ability to logistically manage reality in the Te manner by using the-tribe as an extension of itself which, by collaboration, can accomplish the logistic task.
Te/Fi users instead would simply see the logistical solution by analyzing dispassionately, and directly resolve the issue. Unless Te dispassionately deduces that it requires more hands and support, it'll do it without it, but won't be opposed to it if it's the causal answer to the issue. Ti might be able to dispassionately analyze aspects of reality and with some efficiency be able to deduce the logical movement required, but Ti is more fit to be a compass process than a world-movement process. Ti is slower and more methodical/meticulous than Te. Thus Ti can, if it's forced to operate within the criteria of the outer world (as Te is by default) deduce the same answer as Te, assuming sufficient time is allotted/available. Ti is more philosophical in nature and is hindered by having parameters placed on it which are not its own.
Which brings me to the most important point of this article/thread, that Ti/Fe is responsible (in conjunction with Ni/Se) for mysticism and systems void if empiricism which pertain to aspects of human nature or social placement.
The chinese zodiac, taoism, zen buddhism and even Jung's system of psychological types are all Ti-purity systems with an emphasis on human workings. They are internally consistent but not empirically provable. Since empiricism isn't the *main point* of Ti users, this is ultimately irrelevant if people can see the truth in these subjective deductions. This is also why TiNe also relate often to NiFe both in their view of the world and philosophies. Ti-leads are more prone to Zen-Buddhism principles of stillness and void, while NiFe are more prone to take a more proactive ethical position such as spiritual activist/teacher.
These users may have a strong concept of personal journey and introspection as the avenue to true knowledge. This is an important note not to be confused with Fi. Fi users have deep and rich personal worlds, but they lack the impulse to make it socially embraced. The truth of an Fi user is personal and they know this. The essence of it is individualistic. But Ti users believe that the internal truths they arrive to are objective, and thus separate from just them, and so they seek to have that implemented ethically/socially via Fe. Ti users introspect to discover what they consider objective truths, which they try to make the world adhere to. Fi users introspect to discover the truth of the needs and desires of a 'human', but take logistical action toward the reverence of that reality.
This is why there are a lot of FiSe and NiTe political critics. They 'know' the truth of humanities and want to change the objective system to honor that. They approach it by critiquing things that devalue individuality and life. (homosexual rights, animal rights, etc). Not in the Fe way of trying to rally everyone into a direction, but bitterly trying to overthrow the inhumanity of the Fe systems that have come before and which remain. Other Fe users eventually come to agree with them, but the Fi users, independent of their time in history, have had a sense of what were the just and injust constructs from the start. Whereas many Fe users alive now who are for woman's equal rights, may have been against it a century ago because the social dynamics/climate were different and their opinions would have been, at large, aligned with that climate.
Azereth speaks
Erifrail.... wants to exist in a world that aligns with this conceptual purity and elegance of his idealistic Ti. It is the same dynamic he is uncovering, working within himself. The motive behind his passion in the creation of this system is because he finds beauty in the notion that the human race is systemically divided, and that is further enforced by the desire to have children validated in infancy for their differences and called beautiful for what they are rather than rejected. To have the human race move forward into transhumanism in an elegant fashion where the human psyche is understood and revered. Where things are once again considered sacred, despite the dissipation of Christianity. The advent of a spirituality absent of a deity or need for religion.
To be wise and understand the hearts of men, and be able to see into their soul through their eyes and countenance.
Faelyn speaks
Why do you hate this so? Why do I already hear the scoffs and rejection? Why do I know you'll never let such a beauty arise because to you this subjectivity is not valid and you only believe in the logic of what you can see. Like Jung, I become so self-conscious and worried of sounding insane for these musings when judged by others. The prevailing dynamic in this age... western thought and scientific method.... Te, while my philosophy is more aligned with eastern thought and philosophy.... Ti. The human dynamic that merely exists, not designed to be opporessed. If we can understand and harmonize the tension between these polarities; to acknowledge the differences but coexist in a beautiful world that honors both as equal. Mysticism is part of the equation of the human psyche, just as empiricism, reincarnated each generation by new protagonists of each; embodiments of opposites of the equation. If we could understand this, rather than scoffing at each other, or turning to war -- so caught up in our single more comfortable psychic resting point, defending (no differently than patriots who were arbitrarily born into their country) one position as more true than others -- we could mature as a race into godhood.