I just had a thought. Ti, just like Fi, is an 'I like this, I hate this' function. To both, it feels like "this is true/false" but its decided using 'I like this/I hate this'. That's the compass vis-a-vis Je to which "I" and its stance are utterly irrelevant. The object coming to the psyche is not taken by Ji as is but must 'prove' its intrinsic merit/worth/order to Ji "at the gate", if you will.
The difference is that Ti does not use moral-ish/touchy-feely criteria to do 'I like this, I don't like this', and that's what may come across odd or cold from an Fi perspective, especially if people or morals and their worth are 'chosen' that way. I don't have an equivalent in mind for how Ti might view the Fi methodology/criteria.
Ti is objective in the sense that it doesn’t take value into consideration when discriminating, accommodating or assimilating information. It’s subjective in the sense that it’s rigidly isolated to a singular point of consciousness. Everything that is observed through that specific lens, gets accumulated into one organized complex.
Fi is objective in the sense that it’s fluid. It seems to connect to and flow through different points of consciousness, even though those may be theoretically incoherent. It is subjective because it let’s the inherent sensation guide it to a harmony of theoretical dictums and not the other way around. Something like that.
Ti is objective in the sense that it doesn’t take value into consideration when discriminating, accommodating or assimilating information. It’s subjective in the sense that it’s rigidly isolated to a singular point of consciousness. Everything that is observed through that specific lens, gets accumulated into one organized complex.
Fi is objective in the sense that it’s fluid. It seems to connect to and flow through different points of consciousness, even though those may be theoretically incoherent. It is subjective because it let’s the inherent sensation guide it to a harmony of theoretical dictums and not the other way around. Something like that.
Interesting! "Inherent sensation", meaning what we intuit directly, in feelings, as the intrinsic worth of a thing or the intrinsic harmony of concepts, yes? I know things are true the same way I know music is good or harmonious or 'just right'. The harmony in it produces harmony within my feelings when I hear it. It's the same thing with reasoning. Coherent logic/truth always produces harmony/clarity directly in my emotions. Hence, I have known things were true the very moment I heard them/read them, before I knew why they were true, a few times. I have also known things were false before I could say why. It's also sometimes, how I have been able to intuit the future. An image accompanied by the feeling of 'truth' and 'knowing'.
I have a pal I suspect is TiSe and the way he 'evaluates' people leaves me feeling some kind of way. I realized it was because of the criteria I intuited he was applying based on his words and behaviour. It seemed fundamentally wrong but I didn't realize it may be a Ji clash.
Aqua Precisely! There's a special kind of inner knowing preceding the intellectual understanding. I sometimes get a tickling sensation in my throat when I hear/read/see something that is true on all levels. It's pure. I can't conceptualize it better than that. Then there's the "I see clearly how all this fits together but I can't necessarily verbalize it neatly for you", which I presume is an Ne-experience. So many threads of importance simultaneously.
a tickling sensation in my throat when I hear/read/see something that is true on all levels.
That reminded me of the throat chakra, Pine. Very interesting bodily signal there! And yes, I think that 'I know but can't say it' thing involves Ne. I think it's the same thing that when pronounced creates the Aspie shade among Revisor Deltas.
“If every tiny flower wanted to be a rose, spring would lose its loveliness.”
Vishuddhi. Pure expression. The bridge between mind and heart?
I feel like Fi creates clarity through an explicitly integrative/associative process. Even though J is judgy; even though Ji is subjective. The integrative process eventually leads to separation. Emotional investment -> Pain in context of dissonance. *Fi-disgust be tearing things apart.* Ti seems to slice things up firstly, creating opposing mental categories. Which leads to growth and eventually mutual coherence, since each category is filled with data individually until it "pours over" into the other.
Your ideas about the Aspie shade makes sense. (I think I'm guilty of that. )
Your ideas about the Aspie shade makes sense. (I think I'm guilty of that. )
Oh, I didn't mean I thought that was your shade (I don't). I think that interior experience of Ne you described is what, IF pronounced, might create that shade. It def happens to me enough that I've wondered if I'm a mild, sometimes-aspie shade.
I feel like Fi creates clarity through an explicitly integrative/associative process. Even though J is judgy; even though Ji is subjective. The integrative process eventually leads to separation. Emotional investment -> Pain in context of dissonance. *Fi-disgust be tearing things apart.* Ti seems to slice things up firstly, creating opposing mental categories. Which leads to growth and eventually mutual coherence, since each category is filled with data individually until it "pours over" into the other.
I agree about Fi. Specially: "*Emotional investment -> Pain in context of dissonance. *Fi-disgust be tearing things apart.*" That's absolutely how I gain clarity. Sometimes the pain is paralyzing! I have to sort it and sort it till I reach a moment of breakthrough (clarity) and experience relief (sigh). I've never thought of it this way, though. Interesting! Actually it reminds me of some of what was said when Phibious and Jell had those lengthy discussions on the functions. I would wonder if Fi is logic dipped in emotion, lol. I.e If it's logic but clothed in feeling, so that true-false can literally be felt (before it was understood in the head). I described this self inquiry thing I do when working out the logic of something, I called it reverse logic. Basically asking a question and receiving an answer (from me, lol), the answers are as good as the questions asked. I guess it wasn't logic per se but 'judgment'. Yeah, it makes perfect sense now that you put it this way. Incongruence in beliefs is literally painful!! I wonder what dissonance feels like to Ti/how it's experienced by Ti.
I've been thinking about this and I think what I mean is, Ji tends to wholeness, and it's in that sense that the object is seen in relationship with the self and that Ji does its accepting/rejecting, i.e, the inability to tolerate the mis-match at a fundamental level. It's like everything that comes in must be fit into a wholistic structure already there and if it's not, it's so uncomfortable it must be dealt with, either by being discarded or if that's not possible, by reworking the whole system until no mis-match is felt. I use 'felt' loosely. I don't know what the Ti experience is, but I know dissonance must be experienced in some way besides just being perceived mentally. Kahawa, is that better?
“If every tiny flower wanted to be a rose, spring would lose its loveliness.”