Post by ayoungspirit on Jul 5, 2013 10:21:49 GMT -5
Heron : you made very convincing arguments against paleolithic fad and I agree with them precisely. However, on a health level, one will also have to consider that some people use it only as a hypothesis for objective scientific studies, which unveil actual facts about the human body.
Are less grains and more protein and veggies helping to lose fat ? Yes if you read the result of these studies. Why ? Who cares actually, it does not undermine the benefit we can get from them, and the one we can also get from a more knowledgeable use of grains and other manufactured substances.
Therefore, it can be a useful speculating tool to find what is most effective on a neutral chemical plan that is really complex and can exceed our comprehension. A carrot still is not something one can synthesize, or just an addition of macro-nutrients and vitamins, the texture is also doing something on the digestive process, etc. The sustain aspect is really the more preoccupying of the two, and I agree that some middle ground is needed, and this is what I try to accomplish myself through global synthesis.
ayoungspirit in my opinion this is a matter of "what study in particular you consider the reliable?". In this... meh, review? i'm making i just try to explain why for me it wasn't a good movie. I tried to be the most impartial possible, if you noticed i'm vegan and i never underlined my beliefs in that sense in the post (i hope so ). Regarding the studies i don't have nothing to say, i'm not an expert, i can only read articles and make a truth combining them. Mainly, my vegan choice is not only for health (with my sources obviously), but mostly for ethics, and with the ethical choises we can discuss almost... forever. I hate when i see a documentary and i notice that is really biased, it happened with Spurlock, who made a documentary that based his succes not in the informations (in my vision right for the most part) but extremely theatricalised, thing that blurred his effectiveness, and is happened to FatHead, that is REALLY biased for the most part, making critiques on SSM focusing only on some quotes, totally ignoring the points in common in the two documentaries. I was expecting much more than this.
I knew it would be a sensitive topic. I don't want you to convert to anything, Im not paleo myself (though there's a high chance our ancestors ate mostly game, some plants and berries, the simple reason is that they didnt have yet the technology to make highly processed food with grains, ant that's how we evolved. The life expectancy at 35 Lol, another myth, actually it was calculated with infant and old people mortality (the most fragile population), but the people who survived had a life expectancy similar to ours. Studies have been made on today's tribes (mostly Inuit, Massai), they eat almost no veggies and they don't die like flies (is it an English expression too). However nutrition and lifestyle is complex and it seems I pushed buttons, sorry if I upset you Heron since you are vegan, as I said I don't want to convert you (especially with an Iphone ). I have the impression we want agree anyway, it's a matter of personal beliefs.
peppergirl yes, but i want to read something more, i can't trust just a documentary and some scientists and say "oh, it changed my worldview", it didn't happen with SSM, why it has to happen with FH? It isn't enogh. Theory is something that has to be discussed, because theory per-se is incomplete. I said (almost) all my critique about the movie is based on something traceable, you can read it all in books, internet, articles. How many people agree with the contrary? Say that "everyone before was wrong" or "some people with interest say" like SSM (with corporations) and FH (SUPER EVIL VEGAN ASSOCIATIONS(we want to destroy all the world)) did. The expectancy of 35 years of life wasn't only on paleolithic, it was also in the also medieval era, some centuryes ago. Where they vegans? They used to eat little quantities of meat? The inuit populations can have developed some sort of reistence to meat (with evolution), but their life is really short, you can read it anywhere. Anyway, that doesn't mean anything, in the world ther's no culture who used to have a diet even similar to that, because of adaption, another thing i wrote in my posts. Have you read all post i wrote (mainly the example of where i live)? I know they are long, but you did it? You can't just say to me "lol, another mith", i gived you all the reason (non vegan centered) because i think this movie was wrong, can you tell me where i'm wrong?
ayoungspirit no you're wrong, if you really knew vegetables, you probably discovered that onions are terrible and deadly, with 20 sharpened layers, you have to use an arrow before being overwelmed by his deadly touch
I think I tried watching Fat Head a couple years ago but I simply couldn't listen to that obnoxious protagonist so I turned it off. However, I've been eating something like paleo/primal with varying exceptions for about 3 years now. I don't care much for the label, I just tried to eat stuff that makes me feel good and if I want to 'cheat' than I do it without giving it much further thought or feeling guilty. If I'm putting too much belly fat on I'll go low-carb for a month or two and it's all gone. I feel like I know so much about food that it's very easy for me to put on or lose weight, depending on what I want to do. One thing I would like to point out is that the dogma on saturated fat has changed a lot in the past decade or two, with a growing number of researchers and nutritionists now agreeing that it is in fact healthy. But the jury is still out there. I also don't think that the sustainability argument against eating meat/paleo is a very good one, see e.g. here. And I also fail to see what's wrong with eating meat for ethical reasons in principle, though I agree that there is something wrong about eating most of the meat that's being produced today.
A CT metaphor to this because I am a bit obsessed with nutrition: You know how most modern diseases are linked to inflammation (due to an omega 3:6 imbalance and other factors, as ayoungspirit pointed out)? Well, they manifest in different ways. They are classified by symptoms, but there is considerable overlap between the symptoms of one disease and another. That is how I see systems like CT. We give names to a group of processes and symptoms we recognize, but we can't draw strict lines between them. I don't believe we can, anyway. The brain doesn't seem to work like that. A person may be diagnosed with ADD then as being on the autism spectrum, etc. because diagnosing mental health is really just about identifying a group of symptoms for which the cause is still "unknown" (hello, genetic variability + consequences of modern diet!). I think of type like that.
To the topic at hand, I like Joel Salatin's model for sustainable meat consumption. The animals add something back to the land. By the way, what do you believe his CT to be?
Last Edit: Jul 19, 2014 23:59:55 GMT -5 by teatime