This thread is not meant as an attack on anybody. It's just that the way some people express themselves annoys me a lot, and I'm curious as to what functions cause this particular problem, so that I can learn to cope with them and understand the situation better. I've looked throughout the videos on the site, and I found two examples in this one:
Rebeca Black and whoever else that is after her (at 2:50; the youtube video description says there are three [SeFi]s, but I'm certain there are four people) simply hurt my ears. It has something to do with the voice, especially when they emphasize things. I don't see the same thing with Fanning and Pattinson, though. Maybe it's not type-related?
It could be purposefully imitated to emphasize and it could also be natural. Maybe it's just a case of impulsed sassy Te-Fi dismissal. Maybe it's more common amongst PeFis with middle to high use of Te because of their momentum and a more natural tendency to emphasize bluntly an idea that comes from a Fi inconsistency (she was angry with the people that spread the rumors that she was pregnant, she makes value judgements like 'it's not funny', she's indignant). This could also come from a self-perception of pride or it could be a reflection of her background (maybe she was spoiled, maybe her demands of attention were usually satisfied and she has learned to be louder and more expressive when they are not). It's like a learned exaggeration of her own nature.
Since you're asking for our take on this, well in my opinion it is noot really CT-related, but it is at the same time haha. Well, let me try to explain: I also find Rebecca Black's style of communication annoying (and I've seen a couple of very similar people in real life too), BUT it is a very specific shade of SeFi. Most SeFi shades are far from that (and I personally don't find those other SeFi shades annoying at all. Some of them are even lovely, charming, interesting and attractive imo. I actually personally truly find some attractive/inspiring shades in all CTs and non-inspiring ones too in each if them (my very own CT very included. I've met some FiSes that I found quite inherently annoying and other FiSe who were very inspiring and amazing)! But of course it is personal and subjective, as we know). So I don't believe it is related to the functions Se or Fi or this combination as upper process but with a very specific shade of SeFi. And this can be amplified to any shade of any CT. As peppergirl once said, Einstein and Britney Spears are in the same NeFi team.
Post by peppergirl on Jul 13, 2013 13:57:40 GMT -5
She's annoying to me too don't worry and I guess many SeFi's wouldn't be glad to have her in their team. She reminds me of some other PeFi's, it seems high Fi (immature? and over-selfconfident) can give that "diva" vibe but it mostly girls apparently. I wonder if there are masculine equivalents....
This is a bit dangerous ground, for sure, because there are sensitivities included in "owning" a type. I know I have a bunch of dictators sharing my type, which fact can get stuck in my throat on a bad day.
I'm not that bothered by SeFi sassyness. It's more amusing than annoying to me, maybe because you don't see much of it where I live. And I seem to share the functions, lol. It's like looking at myself in a kinked mirror (exactly what might happen for a SeFi while looking at a badass TeNi). A good parody of diva expression is Angie Jordan in 30 Rock:
Completely unrelated, but I love the older woman in that video (with the ex-husband). I could absolutely see her having a badass TeNi side.
And I agree it's probably just one shade of SeFi, perhaps more common in younger people who haven't balanced out yet. Certainly not indicative of SeFi's in general. I know one likely SeFi with strong Te who'd be offended by the very comparison. ^_^
I don't know whether or not it is type related, or if there's any of way of changing your own natural reaction, but, I think one thing you can hope is that it's just a phase they'll outgrow (if person in question is young enough). Perhaps see it, particularly in Rebecca Black's case, as a sign of immaturity. I suspect all types have their own little quirks when unbalanced or immature, and this just happens to be one that annoys you (along with many others, I suspect, judging by the reaction to her song). Maybe others of the same type would have more patience as they could better relate, but it could also go the other way around, as I, and I suspect many others, am easily annoyed by traits I myself possess and am not proud of/working on changing.
Post by peppergirl on Jul 14, 2013 16:17:02 GMT -5
Too nice and dreamy can be annoying too. I had a friend like that and she was soooo nice but in a immature and submissive way to the point it wakes up the Te in me and I acted very sarcastic and "mean" to her. I'm not particularly proud of it since she didn't change at all and happened to have some psychological problems... I prefered to stay away from her because I couldn't ignore my irritation :/ She was a strange case, and probably NeFi too (or FiNe).
Too nice and dreamy can be annoying too. I had a friend like that and she was soooo nice but in a immature and submissive way to the point it wakes up the Te in me and I acted very sarcastic and "mean" to her. I'm not particularly proud of it since she didn't change at all and happened to have some psychological problems... I prefered to stay away from her because I couldn't ignore my irritation :/ She was a strange case, and probably NeFi too (or FiNe).
It's funny, because I definitely do that sometimes, the too nice in an immature and submissive way bit, but it generally means I'm feeling nervous and trying to compensate. I'm rarely that way around close friends or family, and have a definite stubborn streak, but she could very well have a similar shade of NeFi to me. It's also possible she's using the niceness in a similar way as I do, to make herself feel better and more in control in a situation where she is uncomfortable. And it's not really submission. It's more...if I'm being nice to people and doing things for them, that means I'm not just the annoying hanger-on. I'm a contributor, I have some degree of control (something it's not all that easy for me to get socially) and I can offer material aid, when I don't feel qualified to give or comfortable offering emotional support. I don't really wish to expose a random stranger to anything personal (although quite a bit shows on my face, whether I want it to or not), but I don't want to be rude either, so I settle for being nice and polite. I don't know if this makes any sense, but figured I'd try and at least explain some of the reasoning behind it.
Post by peppergirl on Jul 14, 2013 19:58:27 GMT -5
Oh, I was not criticizing the nice attitude in general and I'm myself very nice and a bit "submissive" when I'm nervous (usually in the professional field, not with family or close friends) so yes I understand the psychology of it, if not too well... What irritated me in her is that she showed absolutely no Te ever, she did those... empty eyeball stare (not in the Se way lol) and didn't defend herself. It's a bit complex to explain the feeling but she took medications too that made her totally slow in everything and rigid at the same time. But I realized she had deeper problems that I was a bit helpless for her. It's a bit depressing. Anyway, if I compare her to you, you're veeeery different, you look quite lively and not "empty" when acting nice. She looked like... there were nobody inside o.O Like she had two perspns in her, I was a bit uneasy, that's why I ended avoiding her. I was afraid she would hurt me one day, without even realizing it.
peppergirl- Ah, that makes sense. And I didn't think you were accusing her of anything, or laying blame on niceness in general (as I feel like acting more submissive is a fairly common response to nervousness), just figured I'd try and try and explain, as I know some people who have the exact opposite reaction and get irritable and domineering in the same sorts of situations. I'm hope she was eventually able to recover to an extent, although I don't know if what she had was curable. Sorry for projecting my own reasoning, as it sounds like her case probably stemmed from very different roots.
chaoticbrain- I agree. And I think it comes in different shades, which will annoy different people. One of my best friends is a gamma type (I think FiSe or NiTe, I'd have to examine her more closely to tell which, but Fi>Te and Ni>Se) whose mannerisms I find charming and whose goals are, in my mind, admirable. But, I knew another gamma type (Possibly NiTe or TeNi, but she reminds me a lot of the INTP youtuber in the Fi vs. Fe thread, so I don't know for sure) who I couldn't stand (for many reasons, with mannerisms being the least of them). Totally different personalities, totally different public personas, but the same basic function loops. I'd imagine Fi/Te users might be particular prone to this.