I have come to the conclusion that my squints are flirting-related (and they are a special type Se locking-on). I found an old pic (2008) where I am doing the squint (overlook the bad quality of the image. I had to take a photo of a screen of a computer that no longer works). I remember I was flirting with the person who took the photo. To me it's a violent Se-locking on and definitely my squint.
What's interesting is that while I can relate to MsLajlaa squints, I'm sure I have the Ni scowl too, but where she pushes her head forward, I don't push my head forward I nod and tilt my head.. that may be waaay too many little things that make no difference, but it is a difference I noticed.
I may be totally wrong here (please feel free to correct me), but could this relate to being a P-lead? So you're actually preparing to listen to the other person and perceiving cues of his point of view, like you said, whereas my concentration is unconsciously more on how efficiently my message comes forth. So quite literally your most prominent extroverted function is perceiving and mine is judging, hence the difference in gesticulation direction.
If I remember right, at least Ni tends to show up as backward leans, a sort of "retreating to watch from the far to get the whole pic" manner. In the Larin NiTe video the first guy makes these backward leans with his whole body, and my P-lead husband makes them a lot, too. On the other hand, this may be a totally different thing than what we're talking here.
I definitely do more forward leans, both with my head and the whole body, which can come out as aggressive or pushy even if I don't mean to. It must look horrendous, when I'm actually angry and intentionally demanding and pushy.
@morsecode i think the point is clearly that (even if you meant something else), for Fe (i'm concentrating in this for the moment, because me and my sister are the most directly observable people ) the "squint" has almost a seductive quality in it, i think it depends from multiple factors, for example i don't do that very often, but people like berlusconi (his perennial squint... bleah) and Cesar Millan do the squint in such a delicate way that can be almost seductive, while who has a low Fe (like arendee in the gifs) looks a bit more clumsy. At least, this is my personal rationalization, i'm probably wrong
Let me say: is wonderfull how in a day we managed to explore a simple clue in a such deep level
Flirting aspect is interesting, as in my case squinting is not related to that, at least not consciously. I honestly never flirt on purpose. I don't even know how to, lol. But I can imagine that some of my expressions could be interpreted as such, especially if I happen to be in a more relaxed SeNi-mode and laughing a lot.
To think of it even more, I squint all the time. It's my basic listening and/or thinking expression, and I've taken it as one sign of Se: both eyelids rising up and creating the extreme alertness look. The nodding and pushing my head forward is the add-on affirming gesture when I'm on the speaking turn.
Heron I think I didn't mean anything in particular... Since some forumers who have the same J oscillation wheel as me were saying that they notice they do squints (and expressing in which contexts), I was trying to discover if I do the same... and it seems to me that I almost never squint (the only photo where I am doing that is the one above when I had just taken a tequila and looking at a new boyfriend - the photographer xD - It seems to me that I probably only squint in that kind of very specific context. ^^
MsLajlaa i was wondering if Fe-leads or support or very heavy users (I MAY BE TOTALLY WRONG IN WONDERING THIS) usually feel more comfortable with flirting? As you said about yourself, I am also unable to do a flirting squint intentionally unless I already have a high degree of romantic intimacy with the person.
Last Edit: Aug 18, 2013 16:17:01 GMT -5 by Deleted
@morsecode: Would make sense to me, as flirting is a social act that is meant to create good feelings in both participants. It requires talent to read the other person to see how far you can go and maintain the good spirit. Sounds like Fe to me. Some of the greatest flirters I have met have been high Fe users. I can imagine high Pe also supports flirting kind of activity.
Post by chaoticbrain on Aug 18, 2013 16:32:13 GMT -5
The histrionic girl I was talking about I'm pretty sure is NeFi. Their also known for their ability to become "one" with someone else like you were talking about.
I know that for me I have a hard time not flirting because I can't help but show whatever emotion I'm feeling on my face.
Last Edit: Aug 18, 2013 16:32:26 GMT -5 by chaoticbrain
@morsecode: Would make sense to me, as flirting is a social act that is meant to create good feelings in both participants. It requires talent to read the other person to see how far you can go and maintain the good spirit. Sounds like Fe to me.Some of the greatest flirters I have met have been high Fe users. I can imagine high Pe also supports flirting kind of activity.
Yes. I loved the parts I underlined (ooops i underlined everything). Yes, it's totally related to social dynamics (and I would add: lack of deep feelings for the person... superficiality).
Flirting is 'playing' and I believe that people who take love and hearts seriously don't play in this field, unless when with their loved ones. I never took seriously guys who flirt with me (squinting, or any other flirting demonstrations), I always think that they do that with just everyone they find attractive - or simply just everyone (like for example in public places, social occasions, any place, any woman). if getting a "no" from me would break their hearts, they would try a different (more tactful, patient) approach. when people do care, they don't take the lame way. xD and I find that flirters almost always look ridiculous when they flirt.
Last Edit: Aug 18, 2013 16:49:07 GMT -5 by Deleted
What's interesting is that while I can relate to MsLajlaa squints, I'm sure I have the Ni scowl too, but where she pushes her head forward, I don't push my head forward I nod and tilt my head.. that may be waaay too many little things that make no difference, but it is a difference I noticed.
I may be totally wrong here (please feel free to correct me), but could this relate to being a P-lead? So you're actually preparing to listen to the other person and perceiving cues of his point of view, like you said, whereas my concentration is unconsciously more on how efficiently my message comes forth. So quite literally your most prominent extroverted function is perceiving and mine is judging, hence the difference in gesticulation direction.
If I remember right, at least Ni tends to show up as backward leans, a sort of "retreating to watch from the far to get the whole pic" manner. In the Larin NiTe video the first guy makes these backward leans with his whole body, and my P-lead husband makes them a lot, too. On the other hand, this may be a totally different thing than what we're talking here.
I definitely do more forward leans, both with my head and the whole body, which can come out as aggressive or pushy even if I don't mean to. It must look horrendous, when I'm actually angry and intentionally demanding and pushy.
I think that's exactly what it is. Yes, mine is a question.. and I want to know what they did or didn't understand, and apparently, squinting helps me in this, haha... Here's a video I just made, the little nuances.. are fascinating.
Oh, and I'll add that I don't use squinting to flirt.. sexual harassment is no joke, hahaha.
I know that for me I have a hard time not flirting because I can't help but show whatever emotion I'm feeling on my face.
I've seen many SiFe who flirt a lot. It might be related with the high Fe use that mslajlaa and I were talking about.
Maybe, I'm not sure. You yourself said it might be related to Pe-lead. Are pretty strong of the opinion of SiFe as my type now ?
Carl Jung said this about Fe-leads though.
"Hysteria, with the characteristic infantile sexuality of its unconscious world of ideas, is the principal form of neurosis with this type."
Hysteria referring to histrionic personality disorder. I'm not exactly sure I agree though. I think of most attention seeking behaviors Pe-lead. And in my experience histrionic tendancies are Ne-lead.
I personally am not attention seeking, mostly referring to the fact that if I like a girl I'm shes probably going to know quite soon. Could be a sign of Fe but I'm not exactly sure.
Last Edit: Aug 18, 2013 18:18:30 GMT -5 by chaoticbrain
I've seen many SiFe who flirt a lot. It might be related with the high Fe use that mslajlaa and I were talking about.
Maybe, I'm not sure. You yourself said it might be related to Pe-lead. Are very much of the opinion of SiFe as my type now ?
Carl Jung said this about Fe-leads though.
"Hysteria, with the characteristic infantile sexuality of its unconscious world of ideas, is the principal form of neurosis with this type."
Hysteria referring to histrionic personality disorder. I'm not exactly sure I agree though. I think of most attention seeking behaviors Pe-lead. And in my experience histrionic tendancies are Ne-lead. Of course I'm not attention seeking, mostly referring to the fact that if I like a girl I'm shes probably going to know quite soon. Could be a sign of Fe but I'm not exactly sure.
I don't know about other readers but from the (very little) footage of yourself you've made available I'm leaning slightly twoards SiFe (being NeTi the alt. type).
i agree with you that hysteria could not only be co-related with Fe-lead (but it's DEFINITELY NOT A RULE ^^) as well as Pe-lead in some cases, especially female PeFi (even though I've seen many PeTi females that fit this. I would not co-relate that to Ne-lead more than Se-lead. It's much more common among females, even though there are a male exemplars.
"Of course I'm not attention seeking, mostly referring to the fact that if I like a girl I'm shes probably going to know quite soon. Could be a sign of Fe but I'm not exactly sure."
Might be. I can only speak for myself, as an Fi-lead... Most of the boys I liked (as a child, teenager and young adult) never knew that (and if they discovered it was by their own means). Why? For feelings protection. I had relationships in my head with the boys I was in love with and I took them seriously, like one of the most precious things (thinking and daydreaming - and it was somewhat fulfilling, even though it also brought suffering because I wanted moar). But after some decades, I don't keep these things in my chest anymore... but I don't make it noticeable through squinting, or classical flirting (I would feel ridiculous if I did that with someone that could reject me), but through other methods. But it's all past. I don't have to think about it anymoar. The person that I like knows that and it's fine.. but it's not the forum business =P hehehe
Last Edit: Aug 18, 2013 19:09:56 GMT -5 by Deleted
ayoungspirit, yeah he he, I've heard that, and hearing this again from a Ti-lead totally reinforces that. if the Ti-lead happens to be an e5, then aww it gets even mooar 'in their heads', living life in the head, especially these 'F' relational/relationship stuff.
Last Edit: Aug 18, 2013 21:10:02 GMT -5 by Deleted
As an e4 and Fi-lead, the reasons are completely different... but the 5 wing and high self-pres can be factors in my case. And I can't even say that it is strictly connected with fearing rejection, 'cause when I first fell in love (I was 3/4 years old, in the kindergarden), the idea of decreting my love neeeever really crossed my mind, it was something completely secretive. It reminds me that Von Franz uses a Rilke's quotation to explain the personal and subjetive quality of Introverted Feeling (I can't find the book right now but it's something like): "I love you and it is none of your business" xD as a child that's exactly how I experienced romantic love. It's like "being in love with being in love and that's it". But they were situations pre-relationship... I believe that even if as I child I happened to have had a real romantic relationship outside my head, then I would have been completely at home at expressing my deep feelings, like I am as an adult. But when a person experiences very deep true feelings and especially if the person is emotional and highly sensitive, and also highly aware of feelings and influenced by them), this person can't help treating feelings as a very serious matter.. And as a matter of fact, the person will tend to protect those feelings, as something sacred and then comes Rilke's quotation, which could be: "I love you and I will be super interested in letting you know all the details of it if you prove to me you'll treat my feeling/love for you as something sacred, as part of my very soul and existence, because they are"
I hope that elucidates Fi-lead to non Fi-leads.
Last Edit: Aug 18, 2013 21:43:08 GMT -5 by Deleted
Maybe, I'm not sure. You yourself said it might be related to Pe-lead. Are very much of the opinion of SiFe as my type now ?
Carl Jung said this about Fe-leads though.
"Hysteria, with the characteristic infantile sexuality of its unconscious world of ideas, is the principal form of neurosis with this type."
Hysteria referring to histrionic personality disorder. I'm not exactly sure I agree though. I think of most attention seeking behaviors Pe-lead. And in my experience histrionic tendancies are Ne-lead. Of course I'm not attention seeking, mostly referring to the fact that if I like a girl I'm shes probably going to know quite soon. Could be a sign of Fe but I'm not exactly sure.
I don't know about other readers but from the (very little) footage of yourself you've made available I'm leaning slightly twoards SiFe (being NeTi the alt. type).
i agree with you that hysteria could not only be co-related with Fe-lead (but it's DEFINITELY NOT A RULE ^^) as well as Pe-lead in some cases, especially female PeFi (even though I've seen many PeTi females that fit this. I would not co-relate that to Ne-lead more than Se-lead. It's much more common among females, even though there are a male exemplars.
"Of course I'm not attention seeking, mostly referring to the fact that if I like a girl I'm shes probably going to know quite soon. Could be a sign of Fe but I'm not exactly sure."
Might be. I can only speak for myself, as an Fi-lead... Most of the boys I liked (as a child, teenager and young adult) never knew that (and if they discovered it was by their own means). Why? For feelings protection. I had relationships in my head with the boys I was in love with and I took them seriously, like one of the most precious things (thinking and daydreaming - and it was somewhat fulfilling, even though it also brought suffering because I wanted moar). But after some decades, I don't keep these things in my chest anymore... but I don't make it noticeable through squinting, or classical flirting (I would feel ridiculous if I did that with someone that could reject me), but through other methods. But it's all past. I don't have to think about it anymoar. The person that I like knows that and it's fine.. but it's not the forum business =P hehehe
I posted other videos of me talking, it might not be great to type cause I'm acting unnaturally somewhat. I was just curious though.
"Might be. I can only speak for myself, as an Fi-lead... Most of the boys I liked (as a child, teenager and young adult) never knew that (and if they discovered it was by their own means). Why? For feelings protection. I had relationships in my head with the boys I was in love with and I took them seriously, like one of the most precious things (thinking and daydreaming - and it was somewhat fulfilling, even though it also brought suffering because I wanted moar). But after some decades, I don't keep these things in my chest anymore... but I don't make it noticeable through squinting, or classical flirting (I would feel ridiculous if I did that with someone that could reject me), but through other methods. But it's all past. I don't have to think about it anymoar. The person that I like knows that and it's fine.. but it's not the forum business =P hehehe "
One thing to with gamma women that might be worth noting too, is that they might not give off the most friendly vibes. (or maybe I'm wrong). Meaning maybe guys might not reveal their feelings also ?
Last Edit: Aug 18, 2013 21:47:21 GMT -5 by chaoticbrain