He reminds me a lot of TiNe, and without VR one would undoubtedly type him as such, but he's got the same aura as people like Doctorjuice & Tobey Maguire. He's definitely an Fi/Te user with Ne/Si eyes. His Fi is above his Te, though, giving him that airy floatyness, especially so in his younger interviews. In his older interviews he seems to have taken more of a Te managerial persona, but it's still too 'soft' to be high-Te. And his smiles are definitely confirming of high-Fi, as well has the way his face snarls continually at random times. His energy is also naturally receding, not proactive - Fi is his lead process...
The first image here reminds me so much of Doctorjuice, as well as my FiNe real-life friend..
The "consensus"[0] on the internetz seems to be that he's INTP.
The way he built 'git' is such a classical example of Ti (in my opinion), though explaining "why" is going to take a long time (and requires some technical knowledge to really appreciate).
I can see why he might be an INTJ, as a big part of his job is organizing and communicating.
But INFP? What does (high) Fi have anything to do with anything this guy does?
(btw, thanks for taking the time to do his visual reading)
Not quite. He'd be an "INTP" by mbti's criteria, and if I was going to call him anything via mbti I'd call him "INTP". For that matter I'd call myself "INFP" by mbti standards.
This is because mbti has it backward - TiNe's extrovert their feeling, and FiNe introvert their feeling. And especially considering that the polar process is the other side of the identity of the individual, and for an FiNe, that means Te. They'll demonstrate logic and calculation, while concealing their emotions. This is precisely what's listed in those quotes on celebritytypes. You know all those profiles that say "INTPs" hide their feelings and are socially private, and also individualist? Yeah, those are all things Fi does too, and by average even more often than Fe in Ti-leads. The awkwardness of Fi also adds to this. "INTPs" are considered awkward in social situations, but Fi-leads often are too.
I agree with the FiNe assessment. He is a compass lead, but not Ti. He shows all the signs of Fi, especially in his constant emotional charge and monotone speech. He also does a lot of Si scowling and has Ne buoyancy. His eyes don't lead his face, but dart back and forth like a Ne secondary or tertiary.
Last Edit: Apr 26, 2013 13:32:25 GMT -5 by Alerith
Not quite. He'd be an "INTP" by mbti's criteria, and if I was going to call him anything via mbti I'd call him "INTP". For that matter I'd call myself "INFP" by mbti standards.
This is because mbti has it backward - TiNe's extrovert their feeling, and FiNe introvert their feeling. And especially considering that the polar process is the other side of the identity of the individual, and for an FiNe, that means Te. They'll demonstrate logic and calculation, while concealing their emotions. This is precisely what's listed in those quotes on celebritytypes. You know all those profiles that say "INTPs" hide their feelings and are socially private, and also individualist? Yeah, those are all things Fi does too, and by average even more often than Fe in Ti-leads. The awkwardness of Fi also adds to this. "INTPs" are considered awkward in social situations, but Fi-leads often are too.
Well, no, unless you have a different definition of MBTI (or of cognitive functions).
MBTI's INTP has Ti -> Ne -> Si -> Fe which corresponds exactly to your TiNe type.
I know what you're trying to say... and essentially you'd be correct and i agree with you. I just... well, it's not fully accurate. INTP means "introverted intuitive thinking perciever", at core, according to how mbti divides things into four sets of opposed preferences. So, it's someone who has a preference for introversion over extroversion, preference for logic over feeling, preference for open-endedness over structure, etc. I know you don't think of things that two-dimensionally, but please gimme a moment to explain my stance.... ..first to reiterate from the article:
Note to Advanced MBTI Typologists:
The Myers-Briggs system, the Socionics system, and the content herein at CognitiveType.com all seek to inform on the same reality of the psyche. Although the MBTI presently remains the most popular adaptation of Jung's work, it is filled with inaccuracies which quickly become apparent to those who delve deeper into the origin of its theory. Furthermore, through the past decades, typologists have evolved our cognitive understanding of the functions, so much so that the present, highest awareness of this phenomenon does not resembles the traditional MBTI understanding in the least. Nonetheless those with a personally acquired a correct awareness of the reality of the dynamics of the processes, still refer to them through the traditional MBTI terminology out of custom - essentially overlapping two systems. For example, the term "INTJ" already means (in the minds of adept typologist) something completely different from how the term is used by Myers-Briggs, but the term remains a lingering emblem used to refer to an understanding that until presently lacked its own embodiment.
Y'see, like half of the stuff on mbti profiles/descriptions is grounded on this sort of dichotomy/letter-based analysis while the other half is somewhat functions based. It's an intermingling that never should have happened. It's extremely hard to tease it apart. I see it happen all the time. People will claim they see types through the functions in use but then they bring up letter-specific arguments. Per example:
I can see why he might be an INTJ, as a big part of his job is organizing and communicating.
There it is, the mbti letter-based thinking. How could you say he is probably INTP but could be INTJ? They have no functions in common. "part of his job is organizing and communicating", ok, so that'd give him Te if he was "INTJ". Yet you clearly believe he has Ti. So which is it? Imo I think the mbti way of thinking is penetrating your arguments despite you claiming to know the functions. And I've pointed it out before in the thing about "SJs".
I'd have no issue calling Ti-Ne-Si-Fe "INTP" if that wasn't used as a gateway to do things like stereotype in the letter-dichotomies way.
so that'd give him Te if he was "INTJ". Yet you clearly believe he has Ti. So which is it?
Obviously I don't know him well enough. Things we attribute usually to Te *can* be present in Ti people, and vice versa, as you yourself explained in the youtube comments on the TeNi video.
INTPs and INTJs, despite having no common functions, still have many similarities. For starters, they're both introverts, both are abstract. Both are likely to be interested in technology or working with it.
Imo I think the mbti way of thinking is penetrating your arguments despite you claiming to know the functions.
You haven't explained how Fi has anything to do with anything that Linus Torvalds does.
You haven't explained how Fi has anything to do with anything that Linus Torvalds does.
Mmm, I don't know if I can provide any examples of what he does, that exclusively signals out Fi over Ti. I've iterated before that the same actions can result from different avenues. Especially considering Fi nor Ti necessarily do anything. Not outwardly anyway, though they influence the way other processes act out. But I'll try to pick out an example...
When asked about why he did what he did in making linux open-source and not getting a profit from it, he gave a very Ji answer. He was doing what he enjoyed, for nobody else or no other reason than for himself. But when asked further as to why not market it to make it more mainstream, even if that wasn't the original idea, his general attitude always seems to confirm that the collective of human prosperity isn't his main concern. And it's not that a Ti-lead couldn't also do the same thing, but his arrival at that comes from a place where his ethical thinking is individualist, not collectivist.
Even when the Fe of a Ti-lead decides something against the profit of the collective, it comes from some form of ethos that deals with how others relate to others. For example "people shouldn't depend on others" is an ethos that has an agenda of desiring a certain organization of the outer world of people. Inversely Fi has a different attitude of just "They can think what they want, I'm just being me." It's not even about a topic of how others relate. When it pertains to the physical relation between things they use a spartan Te. So Fi-Te users are emotionally private and have their own beliefs and reasons for things which they don't exert on others and which don't even pertain to others, but they use a spartan logical implementation when they do wanna do something.
But I really don't like this post. It's hard for me to psychoanalyze someone based on their deeds/actions/careers... I kinda suck at it, really. I don't see them as the main point..
Perhaps Alerith or someone else can offer their opinion?
I know what you might be thinking though. That because he spent his life writing code, he must have Ti, because Ti is the function that can handle the level and type of logic that's required for being a programmer for a living.
That'd be false though. Some Ti-leads are social activists and humanitarians for a living. (Heck some Ti users suck at math.) Then some SiTe, and other Te types are often into programming.
I know that Alerith works with a high-Te user, who is a pro-coder and helped develop some well known software. Te is well equipped for this sort of thing too. And a polar-Te user is no less capable of excelling in the creation of objective systems than a polar-Fe user (like myself) is at coming up with ideal societal structures/systems.
Which I love to do, btw. I enjoy coming up with systems of organization of people. To define their proper relations to one another.
Yeah - I'm pretty sure the coworker you are referring to is a NiTe. He is really good at his job (including the coding portion/plugin development) because he approaches things from a Te perspective. The problem at hand is the deciding factor in his actions, he doesn't theorize like a Ti user, but uses logic in respect to the parameters of the system in question. He uses his Ni map to extrapolate a solution from similar situations then implements it in a linear fashion with his Te.
The interesting thing is, when I watched the videos of Linus Torvalds, he reminded me a lot of my coworker. He has somewhat of the same persona, but he is less forceful and articulate.
I know what you might be thinking though. That because he spent his life writing code, he must have Ti, because Ti is the function that can handle the level and type of logic that's required for being a programmer for a living.
Well, not necessarily Ti, but probably T>F
Please note that nothing is certain (in this field) as far as I'm concerned, it's all just varying levels of probabilities. Fi-dom is not impossible; it's just not very likely for someone like Linus.
Fe>Ti and Fi>Te can certainly write programs, but when you talk about a highly effective programmer who did not just write any programs, but an operating system kernel, and to consider that he's been doing this all his life, and he's that good at it .. I mean it becomes less likely that he has F>T. It's not impossible, but needs plenty of arguments to be convincing.
There was a time when I thought I was INFP where I also thought any type can do anything. There's an anime called Code Geass; don't know if you've seen it (if you haven't seen it, you should; it's possibly the best show ever). The main character (Lelouch) is a classic INTJ. Yet because I was such a fan and felt I could relate to his character in some aspects, I thought why does he have to be an INTJ? He could totally be INFP!! He's obviously driven by his emotions!! So I started a thread on personality cafe to discuss his type, and it's actually this discussion that clarified a lot of my misconceptions about what F/T really mean and eventually drove me to the conclusion that I'm more likely an INTP than an INFP.
Sure, an INFP *can* lead an army to victory in a battle. If that was the only aspect one is considering for Lelouch's personality, then he could be anything. But when looking at all the aspects, he can't be anything but an INTJ. The way he constantly steps on people's emotions because he thinks it's for the better (Te), the way all his moves are calculated towards very specific goals/milestones (Te>Fi), the way he's very future-oriented (Ni) to the point where he'd rather destroy everything and start anew.
The problem at hand is the deciding factor in his actions, he doesn't theorize like a Ti user, but uses logic in respect to the parameters of the system in question. He uses his Ni map to extrapolate a solution from similar situations then implements it in a linear fashion with his Te.
That's also been impression I got from my experience with Te programmers.
Code Geass is such an awesome show. Though, imo, it's not as realistic in it's psychologies as a show like Death Note. Lelouch isn't an actual cognitive type, ...he kinda seems more like a concept. An idea. The ideas are things some types relate to, though, and that's what generally makes an appealing character.
...it's all just varying levels of probabilities. Fi-dom is not impossible; it's just not very likely for someone like Linus.
I suppose looking at it from probabilities, I agree it isn't as probable as other estimations. There's a whole gradient of generalizations, I've found, if we take that route. Per example from my experience I've noticed that more often than not Ti-leads have black circles below their eyes. Though more often than not could be 51% over 49%. Every action has a tilt, even if very slight, toward being more probable of certain types than others. Though I wouldn't rely on these as methods of typing, but instead see them as some of the many naturally occurring similarities due to same-type.
Though, imo, it's not as realistic in it's psychologies as a show like Death Note
Heresy! I think Code Geass is more realistic. Light Yagami's "evilness" is beyond human; there isn't enough background story to justify his character either. But anyway ..
Per example from my experience I've noticed that more often than not Ti-leads have black circles below their eyes.
-_-
What does a facial feature have anything to do with psychological type? Even if all Ti's you've seen have that specific facial feature, the link is still very weak.
On the other hand, the type of activities a person enjoys have a *very* strong link to his psychological type.
Hehe, exactly. There's no significant correlation. It's a weak link..
Activities a person enjoys is also a very weak link tho, imo, which was my point. Like, I've been a part of nerd groups, like card-gamers, and there's a lot of SiTe, TiSe, NeTi, FiNe types and so forth, but then there's also Fe-leads in there, SeFi and other types which are friends of those and also got into it cuz of their friend.