Hy there! Lately i gained again my internet, but i'm inside many things so i don't have very much time for everything, i just wanted to post a little thing:
Now, with the second pinner, we found out that his type is another one.... he's TiNe Proofs:
since the start of the video you can see how he's rigid and controlled, clearly not a P lead in that sense. His body is completely stiff. You can see a lot of tension in his mouth, but because he clearly tightens his lips very strongly (this has more to do with personality than ct), and i think that this causes that strange way he pronunces words, constantly biting them, thing that doesn't happen even with high Fi users. He's very distant and can pass as "cold", but his voice is not monotonic, his articulation is in fact very "dancey", plus, you can see some Ti neutralizations and disengaging down here and there: 0:55 1:06(in the end of the phase), he also stops very often. And at 3:36 it seems a Fe-polar smile.
another videouh that shows a lot of Ti:
So... what do you think? He was pretty tricky in the end.
TheLogicFan Well, i think we can discuss the TeFi vs TiFe thing, in fact i think that his constant tension around the mouth is pretty confusing. But i don't see any trace of NiSe, apart from the impression of his eyes, in fact his eyes are more probably SiNe than anything else. You can see his scowling while acting, for example
and in the timestamps (first video): 1:06 1:18 1:27 1:48 2:43 etc, to me these don't seem Ni scowls.
Regarding his J functions... well, i don't see many Fi-Te signals apart from the tension around the mouth and the nasal voice of Te leads (if this is a signal anyway). I don't see any shoulder shrug, his speech is not fast, or monotonic (this can be questionable as we know that actors work very hard with the articulation), his fingers doesn't seem very stiff unlike the rest of the body, at 1:18 these are shily meticolous (Ti). And his smile is very large, compared to the one of a Fi polar (remember the time stamp in the first video: 3:36 and also at 7:47):
also he's constantly disengaging down while talking, this is a clear sign of high Ji usage, it doesn't seem related simply to a polar Fi or Ti, and at 7:12 we have a clear neutralization of the face, stopping where he should have no doubt of what he was saying (...actually jor el and zod........are friends.)
Of course we can discuss it. That is why we have this forum.
I'm glad you can see the tension around the mouth. This is why we know for sure that he doesn't do any Ti neutralizations. Ti neutralizations have to end with a completely neutral expression. And since he always has tension after a smile, there is no evidence for Ti neutralization.
The first picture you posted is actually more of a Ni scowl than anything else. You can see how the edges of his eyes are perfectly visible (to us) even though he has a very deep scowl. This is typical of a Ni scowl. I also took a look at some of the timestamps you gave as example of scowls not being Ni. But those are actually also Ni scowls. You have to pay attention to the small details of these things, but his upper eyelids clearly stay up and never come down over the edges of his eyes as they do in a Ne user. Maybe what is confusing you here is that he is looking down a lot. This make his eyes seem less open and therefore less of a typical Ni scowl, but it is just a result of his looking down.
I don't know if you are aware of how stony his expression is, but his face is very rigid (tense). He doesn't have a neutral and relaxed face like a lead-Ti have. His smile is also not that unusual for Te-lead. I have seen a number of wide smiles in other Te-leads. Some of them just look like that.
I'm glad you can see the tension around the mouth. This is why we know for sure that he doesn't do any Ti neutralizations. Ti neutralizations have to end with a completely neutral expression. And since he always has tension after a smile, there is no evidence for Ti neutralization.
Yes, i see what you mean. But tension is different from simple physiognomical features, using as a meter of judice that the lines around the mouth are a sign of Fi tension should mean that people like Terry Crews (FeSi), Patrick Stewart (FeNi) and Barack Obama (FeSi) are in reality Fi users, wich is not. I think the tension around the mouth is the only cue that can suggest TeFi, because i don't see anything else apart from that. I think that this is more linked with his own personality, he's always controlled, more than a normal Je lead can be, he bites his own words, and never shows himself more than he thinks he should, actually letterman takes all the predominance in the interview where he tries (for his job) to make the interviewed the eye of the attention. --- And base the meter of judice the external side of the eyes we showld admit that people like Leonardo Di Caprio (NiFe), again Patrick Stewart (FeNi) Yann Tiersen (SeFi) and Sigmund Freud (SeFi) are NeSi users because the edges of their eyes are physiognomically droopy and gets even more when scowling. I can mention also examples of NeSi users who scowling, if the edges of the eyes aren't in-born drop or many Si leads, continue to show the external side of the eyes, people like Joan Baez (FiNe), Tobey Maguire (FiNe), Fidel Castro (FiNe) and Jamie Hyneman (SiTe), and even myself when i'm not exagerating the expression or i'm very angry (very much wich is extremely rare) and/or concentrated. About the signals i see, in all the scowls i see that his eyebrows are falling in all their lenght over the eyes, and not only in their central part. And, i think you can't divide the looking down signal from what he's doing in that particular moment, this is not confusing, it is simply due to a strong Ji use, and he does this that often that makes me difficult to think Ji as a polar process in him.
chaoticbrain mmmmh... do you remember the timestamp? I see that he's pretty nervous during all the interview, he doesn't show this clearly because he seems controlled by nature, but you can see that he adjusts his tie very often without reason, and taps rapidly with his fingers in the sofa. So, i think this is because he's nervous, i should see the part where he makes this in the video
Yes, i see what you mean. But tension is different from simple physiognomical features, using as a meter of judice that the lines around the mouth are a sign of Fi tension should mean that people like Terry Crews (FeSi), Patrick Stewart (FeNi) and Barack Obama (FeSi) are in reality Fi users, wich is not. I think the tension around the mouth is the only cue that can suggest TeFi, because i don't see anything else apart from that. I think that this is more linked with his own personality, he's always controlled, more than a normal Je lead can be, he bites his own words, and never shows himself more than he thinks he should, actually letterman takes all the predominance in the interview where he tries (for his job) to make the interviewed the eye of the attention.
That wasn’t actually what I meant with my last post. I wasn’t talking about “simple physiognomical features” as you put it. I was actually talking about the tension that lingered around his mouth after a smile (preventing it from being completely relaxed and neutral). This is not a permanent tension, but a temporary one that lingers when he is cooling down from feeling an emotion. It eventually disappears, but only slowly like it does in a Fi user.
Michael Shannon is definitely more deferential and shy than most TeNi we see on TV, but this doesn’t mean anything. You don’t have to be a Ji-lead to be this way. This is just part of the natural variance that there is in people.
If you look again at what happens at 03.36 (in the first video) you won’t see a controlled and warm Fe smile that pulls you into a warm embrace of social bonding. Instead you hear a high pitch, giddy, vibrating, “giggle” that is typical of the involuntary emotional outbursts that a Fi user have. It really can’t be clearer than this. Can’t you see it?
Last Edit: Nov 26, 2013 18:36:55 GMT -5 by TheLogicFan
Glad you brought it up again! Not that I'm very helpful here, but seeing him again I'm still thinking gamma for him. His scowls are very similar to mine, he has hypnotic look in his eyes, more Se darts than Ne toggling. His mouth area is trickier because as said it's so rigid. I thought TiSe for a moment, but I still think he's TeFi user. He speaks monotonously, reminds me of Hugh Laurie. I'm less sure of what gamma type he would be. I even started to think of FiSe based on his rigidity and a withdrawn expression.
TheLogicFan you know, in the end i was terribly uncorrect, i trusted more what i'm doing with Pinterest than the vr cues and in the end you and MsLajlaa were totally right, he's TeNi (even if now in the TeNi board makes more sense, he's really similar to Newton and a couple of other guys), the most relaxed shade (opposite to the most common dancer-fever TeSis) and that tricked me out with his natural shape of the eyebrows . Even though i still think about some of the things i wrote, in this case is totally uncorrect. And i wanted to apologize, i realized after i read my own posts that i sounded pretty arrogant, i was just defending my position
Ladies and Gentlemen,TeNi:
chaoticbrain NOOO don't spread the "H.Ti.Ne.V.", don't be an healty carrier D:
chaoticbrain oh... well, that's my memory that tricked me. I just remembered that you wrote something about a possible Fe for him, and i didn't even checked out if it was true or not. I'm kinda melting today, i've been composing something for school that sucked out all my concentration. xP I will probably post it on internet.