We talked about this shortly with Shivaree in another thread, and I'm really curious to understand this cognitive functioning more, because if there's anything that is prominent in my brain functioning, it is this one. What I refer to is something I might call associative thinking: in visual reading, for example, it means that when I look at a person's expression, the first thing my mind does is an association, i.e. someone else that is similar to that person comes into my mind. Another example might be that I'm in a certain kind of situation, e.g. a class, a restaurant, a concert, and I get strong associations to some former situations based on lighting, smells, sound etc. Or I look at a painting and I get million random thoughts and feelings going on, both about the atmosphere of the painting but also how it relates to my life. Or if I read about a theory, a new system etc., my mind immediately creates connections to some other theories and systems that I know ("x's conception of y is similar to a's conception of b"). In other words, my mind is constantly creating networks based on familiarity. I am not very detailed, though, on the contrary. I don't consciously memorize details (I'm very bad at that), but these associations come up spontaneously when I'm in the middle of perceiving, thinking or feeling something. It's a bit like what Jane Marple does, when she sees a similar pattern of some older happening or a person at her village and the people tangled up in a crime she's trying to solve ("Mr. Smith looks at women in a similar way as our pharmacist who cheated on his wife").
What makes me so curious about this is that as far as I've read about the functions, this sounds more like SiNe than SeNi. However, I've been unanimously read to have NiSe for perceiving functions. Maybe I'm understanding functions incorrectly?
Last Edit: Jan 27, 2014 13:22:43 GMT -5 by MsLajlaa
I guess it's the idea I have of Ne creating possibilities and seeing patterns based on former sensory recollections (Si) that are induced by ongoing perceptions. That's at least what happens with me, and if it's NiSe, all the better, as it makes more sense and makes CT typing even more promising in my eyes.
My problem is I really don't understand what NiSe does. I don't relate at all to "mystical" vibes of Ni, as it is often represented in other sites. Also, it's very difficult for me to enter into a "flow" state, and when Nardi described high Ne types having the lowest frequency of the light blue brain states due to their prominent Christmas tree patterns, I related a lot to it. It has been suggested to me that I use my judging functions a lot in comparison to my perceiving functions, which might explain the lack of flow states. However, the associative thinking is very typical for me, so if that's NiSe processing, I do use it a lot.
Shivaree: I'm really curious to hear how other NiSe users conceive their perception functions and cognitive processing in general! And of course how NeSi see this kind of processing.
Last Edit: Jan 27, 2014 14:43:11 GMT -5 by MsLajlaa
Actually, I think the fact that Si is commonly associated with past experiences and sensations, make it easy to confuse it with pattern recognition and network of associations. I used to have the same doubts before, and I even considered the possibility to be SiFe. Because I have this hability to mobilize datas and sensations which were unconsciously stored in my mind, when needed (or not). I totally identify with what you described, MsLajlaa : creating connections between theories and systems, the way you practice visual reading... To give you one example, when I meet someone new, it often feels like this person is not a total stranger to me, because I somewhat recognize "patterns" in him or her, and it gives me a basic idea of the kind of person he/she can be. It's difficult to describe, because this process is not intellectualized at all. I spontaneously identify a bunch of characteristics that also belong to other people I've met in the past but I'm not always able to find out who exactly Mr or Mrs XYZ evokes in my mind.
TheLogicFan, up to now I thought everybody could identify with this functionning, but I wonder how it works for Ne/Si users? What would be the difference with Se/Ni users?
Post by peppergirl on Jan 27, 2014 15:48:27 GMT -5
I can't make long post because of that d&&)(;;,?€& auto-corrector but I'll try post an answer. I actually experience the same thing basically - if I understood correctly anyway - I do recognize patterns, ie a person reminds me a certain kind of people, and CT helped me to put a name to it. I also thought it was Si/Ne but maybe the way the functions process are more subtle in their differences than I thought... The fact there is no thourough description of the Ni/Se functions yet doesn't help.
Thanks TLF, I'm trying to get the difference between them. I read this thread cognitivetype.boards.net/thread/138/si-function-01, and in one reply Erifrail explained the difference between e.g. SiFe child and NiFe child so that SiNe user is more prone to learn by example ("don't eat melon and milk together because it causes stomach ache"), whereas NiSe user may need actual sensory experience to learn. I have to think about that some more. Also, what I need to work on to understand is how Ni and Se, or Ne and Si, work together in different types and with different judging functions.
The Ne/Si experience is nothing like those described above. I wouldnt be surprised to see you brain in some sort of a constant frequency constant amplitide system-wide pattern while the recognition process is going on. That whole Se/Ni eyes not moving thing.... My money is on blue pattern. Ne toggling=christmas tree. This might be spelled out somewhere or I might have made it up, I cant remember which, but its the premise ive been going on for several weeks now.
It cant be any clearer than what TheLogicFan said, especially for this thread with several Ni users (who im start I'm notice really appreciate concise communication), but for any Ne/Si users who would rather have a story version to relate to please continue reading.
I asked a friend who is an Ni user to imagine "seriousness" and then explain what he did. (I was actually trying to discover his J functions at the time but what i learned about P functions proved more valueable to me)
I assumed he would tell me something similar to what I had done when I conceptualized "seriousness" only moments before. I imagined a formless void that has never existed and never will and imagined my fathers face at a time when i understood him to be very serious...
My friend proceeded to tell me how just to think about this concept required him to include his entire life up to that point and how there were several different emotions that were a part of seriousness....
Whow.... Ne/Si does not do that... It always starts with nothing and brings pieces together to create a spontaneously new worldview. Some of those pieces may be completely new concepts that didnt exist before, some may be memories, some may be in the real world in front of them. Its like opening a present on christmas morning, you have no idea what to expect. There could be anything in that little idea box.
It seems to me that the following occurs though i really do like TheLogicFan 's description better because it is more broadly applicable
Ne combines Si ideas (past present future) to create worldview (present)
Se fits ideas (present) into Ni worldview (past present furture)
@emingtonw, very interesting post! I've tried the exercise you proposed to your friend, "imagining seriousness", and this is litteraly what I did : my mind instantly sent an image of what represents seriousness to me When I examine it closer, I realize that it's actually a synthesis of different characteristics I associate with this "concept", with a few elements symbolizing different aspects pertaining to it. I don't know if what I did is representative of any function, but something tells me that this kind of very simple exercise can reveal more about people than a battery of tests, introspection and analysis...
Thanks, @emingtonw, for sharing that! Very interesting. When I thought about "seriousness" I first got impressions of some people (who lack sense of humor and make other people tiptoe around them) and situations (funeral, certain discussions) of my past into my mind, which made me analyze the elements of what made them represent seriousness to me (TeFi judging?), the result of which was that seriousness for me is mostly a feeling based judgment that is induced by a specific context and behavior of other people and which directs my own behavior into being more careful with my speech and actions and showing less enthusiastic expressions.
When I asked another NiSe user about seriousness, he thought about it for a while (with Se searching and Ni zone-out) and said "The Social Insurance Institution". That was it.
There is sooooo much Ne and Ni users have to teach each other about the world! I realllllly appreciate Ni for sooooo many reasons! Its efficiency is as impressive and unmatched as its depth! It really is an amazing thing! I really wish there was some way I could experience it for myself for a day, but I love hearing Ni stories so I can imagine walking in those shoes
Alternatley, the amazing thing about Ne/Si imo is how ideas can come out of nowhere (Seemingly unrelated to anything) to be analyzed with other Si ideas. I REALLY want to understand where they come from. To me thats the golden goose. Its very frustrating that i cant seem to explain what goes on in my mind when I day dream.
Right now the best I can do is say that in many ways it feels like actual dreaming. An uncoordinated jumping from visual idea to idea can literally feel the same to me as the "fall" part of falling asleep. If that makes any sense lol.
TheLogicFan That's interesting. Could you perhaps provide some examples of what this would look like in the practice? And what do you actually mean by ideas and patterns? I don't really understand how "The patterns (Ni) are then retained in memory while the ideas (Se) fade away." Surely ideas are retained in memory?