Lorde (Ella Maria Lani Yelich-O'Connor) - SPLIT

Heron I noticed that you put Lorde on the FiSe board. I realize that her Ti is not that obvious, but it is definitely there. Her smile is deceptive, but I'm pretty sure that she just has naturally pudgy cheeks. If you watch before, during, and after she smiles, her cheeks barely change at all (there is just a slight tightening) and her eyes are not affected. She has a warming swell to her articulation. Her gesticulation is atypical for any type, but she makes a lot of clear Fe/Ti gestures with independently operating fingers (that I can personally attest to not being able to make with my Te/Fi hands).

I have watched probably a couple of hours of video of her. I am actually quite confident in her being a TiSe. Like I said before, I think that the pudginess of her cheeks (and other elements of her facial structure) often create the illusion of emotional tension where there is none. Her cheeks look very similar when she is smiling and when she is neutral. For example:

 

Also, you can see that her eyes muscles do not contract when she smiles. That is a trait that is peculiar to high Ti users. She certainly smiles a lot, but I don't believe there is any rule that says Ti-leads can't do that.
She has a consistently warming quality to her voice that I've never heard in any Ti/Fe users, and she gesticulates with elongated fingers working independently.
Obviously, this is just my own opinion from watching her. She has a weird vibe that doesn't really fit with any type, but, IMO, she is a TiSe.

jason13
In reality, i think that the "pudginess"  of the cheeks per se is a quite obvious signal of Fi usage. Is true that if an Fe user has very big cheekbones (a la Noomi Rapace) can convey fake Fi signals, is not true that when an Fe user has small cheekbones can somehow convey fake Fi signals, apart from cases of overweight (wich is not her case anyway), because if a supposed Fe/Ti user shows Fi signals having small checkbones automatically means that the person is not an Fe user but in fact an Fi user. If they're "pudgy" is because she uses particular muscles that Fe users use very rarely.

I choose a short video to make a list of signals.


1:07 - 1:17 to she displays a pure Fi signal, this is extremely common with Fi lead types and heavy Fi users.
1:19 -  personal smile, looking downward. This smile is not directed to the interviewer, it is totally personal. Follows a neutralization, but the tension is not disappeared, is still there and extremely strong.
1:44 - another personal smile followed by a slow neutralization (too slow to be Ti) that still carries some tension in her face.
2:16 - Fi sorrowfull expression. It looks like she's feeling threatened when psychologically she could feel in a totally different way.
2:26 - this is a clear personal smile. Every interviewer fake out loud a laughter, everyone directed the smile at her, but she's not giving back any feedback like an Fe user would do instinctively, she's making a personal smile, without laughing, just smiling, looking downward.
2:30 - accidental snarl.
3:53 - unseelie Fi. She's not liking what the journalist is saying, and she looks at him with an untrustfull look, showing her total disapproval. And in that moment the tension grows up becoming even more evident, moving her face away from him but still locking the eyes on him. I am an Fe user, i tend to show a lot of "dark Fe", when it happens with me my face is directed straight to the object of my judgment and i have no tension around the nose, but at the sides. An example of what i'm saying, Tom Hardy (SeTi) having an angering reaction to an interviewer, and Thom Yorke in a similar situation (look at 2:16):

4:28 - another personal smile.

I'm not aware of this signal, i could have forgot this one in particular, but the photo you posted demonstrate the exact contrary. ._.

No one said that this is a signal for Ti users, i think this is one misunderstanding. Ti leads CAN laugh as much as they want or feel to do, the difference with Ti heavy users and Fe heavy users is in how much they break the warmness of Fe with the cold appearance of Ti. Erifrail himself smiles a lot, but he makes pauses longer than an higher Fe users would do, and he neutralizes for longer than a normal Fe user would do.

Is not about how warm is the articulation, it is not about the swelling as much as the rythm of the speech. TeFi users tend to repeat the same pitch sequence and the same rhythm more than a couple of time when they talk, Fe users vary the pitch and the rythm way more often.
About the hand signal, i can post this excerpt from the "advanced cues" document:

And also

Is not so weird, it is like this when an Fi user expresses Fi in its pure form, when it is not completely infused with Te. Take a look at Thom Yorke:


But even FiNes can have a similar appearance:


I will leave you a TiSe that has big cheekbones and seems to have Fi where she has not, the woman i named before Noomi Rapace:


peppergirl i will give you an opinion about these guys soon

jason13 , really, i appreciate how much you defend your opinion, but you're clearly seeing things in the wrong way, things like "The things that you mentioned were interesting, but I don't really think of them as "signals"." are exactly the things i would avoid inside of a discussion. If you're not going to consider them as signals how are you going to see them? I gave you the timestamps of every signal that support the Fi lead dominance (also chaoticbrain), you gave me none that support Ti dominance in a clear way apart from vague assertions and simple negation of the things i said.
Dismiss other's readings with "the things you mentioned are not signals" is simply an undervaluation of the opinion of the others and is exactly the kind of things that, with enormous sincerity, pisses me off, and i don't want to see when i'm discussing with another person. Is not going to add anything to the discussion.

Said that.

There is no upward push? Are you sure?
There is CONSTANT upward push in her cheeks:
And i don't see any push in the sides. Her smile takes a vertical direction. she's fortunately a case where the Fi smile is extremely evident. Even if you see it as a "slight tightening of the cheeks" but ok.

The neutralization at 4:00 is not a Ti neutralization. Fi users can show neutralization as well, but they still carry tension in the face after, wich is her case, while a Ti user makes disappear every trace of tension looking in trance, and this happens way more rapidly than in Fi users.
Ti user (Terence Stamp iFe), Lorde and Fi user (Maria Fernanda Candido FiSe).


In all the gifs you posted i only see Fi signals.
I'm not going to reply the other things since here you're seeing things in a different way. I think you have to read again many articles in the forum and see the examples given for the functions, because frankly, i think you're misunderstanding a couple of things. I suggest you the following: compare lorde with all the possible FiSes, all the possible TiSes, try to see if there's some sort of similarity with other types of the same quadra (particularly for beta NiFe-FeNi, for gamma TeNi-NiTe).

To finish, again: dismissing the point of others is not a good way to keep a discussion in an healthy and enlightening way, discussing them point by point is.

Heron chaoticbrain I may have come off as a bit dismissive, and I am sorry for that, but I believe I expressed why I disagreed with your typing methods. You both seemed fairly dismissive of the signals that I mentioned in my first post regarding the physical qualities of her smile, her articulation, and her gesticulations. You instead focused on the situational aspects of her behavior. I didn't say that they had no meaning. I questioned their reliability. I view them as visual reading at its most subjective. You both mentioned personal smiles, but there were also a lot of cases where her smile was clearly directed at the interviewer. Similarly, many of the snippy movements that she made were accompanied by a smile while her eyes were directed at the interviewer. I just don't see the reliability in those kind of signals unless someone consistently only displays personal or impersonal emotionality (Also, Maria Fernando Candido makes both personal and impersonal smiles in that interview). Given how lightly the reliability of gesticulations was dismissed, it seems a bit hypocritical to then make an argument using signals that are even less reliable. And there are almost no similarities between Lorde and Thom Yorke/William Hurt. The latter two are clear unseelie Fi. They have emotional tension on almost every inch of their faces, very soft, breathy articulation, and they rarely smile. In comparison, Lorde has no emotional tension whatsoever from the top of her cheekbones on up, has a warm, musical quality to her voice, and is constantly smiling. Even if she were Fi, she would be seelie Fi. I also don't understand the argument that she has low Te or that her Fi and Te have not fused. In all the videos that have been posted on here, she shows very strong Je articulation for a Ji-lead. She makes a lot of strong head pushes and is a very articulate speaker.There is no upward push when she smiles. I'm not talking about the accentuation of her cheeks. I'm referring to the lack of upward movement in her cheekbones. When she smiles the clash is at the corner of her mouth, where her orbis orbicularis is. When her smile clashes with that muscles, it has a pulling effect on her cheeks slightly down and to the sides. This effect also causes a tightening of the skin around the cheeks, creating a wide, flat zone around her mouth. You can see this same effect in Alanis Morissette (a Ti-lead who also wears near-constant emotionality on her face during interviews). In contrast, Maria Fernando Candido's smile rises slightly to the sides. This causes a direct clash with her cheeks, which creates a bulging effect (similar to Janet Jackson). Her smile does not rise into her eyes (which is not uncommon with unseelie Fi/Te-leads), but she does have permanent muscular contraction below the eyes in a way that Lorde doesn't (Alanis Morissette does seem to have some permanent contraction, but that is probably just a result of the intensity of her smiles. It is the lack of muscular contraction in Lorde that stands out.).

EDIT: I was wrong. She is an FiSe.                                             

                                          

Oh, I'll share my thoughts in a very honest way: I don't see why (in an objective way... because in a subjective way, I can surely understand, if I decided to delve deep into someone's unconscious motivations of self-assertion) the act of discussing someone's posible CT should reach such personal levels - this reminds me of the preocupying ill dynamics that Erifrail mentioned on the thread about 'Mike NFGeek'. If people are not interpreting signals the same way, I think it can still be discussed without trying to inferiorize someone elses typing attemps.

It puzzles me even mooaaarrr when very strong assertions (with some arrogant overtones) come from people who are super new (one month, less than two) to CT VR typing methods. I find it really impressive.

I think it's so valid when people try to discuss with a 'let's learn together, let's try to clear these things out toegther, so that we can speak the same visual reading language' what they're interpreting as signals and what they're seeing as misinterpretation of signals. But it puzzles me this get a tone of 'If you can't see what I'm seeing, then you have a problem'. This is at the least extremely counterproductive and takes away any possibilty of arriving at a visual reading valid conclusion. We can't reach any VR valid conclusion/consensus without a minimal sense of dispassionate detachment in the act of reading someone (which requires putting our complexes and personal garbage in a drawer at least for awhile), even when we all carry the potential of so many powerful insights that can only come from your heated hearts and intuition, but they can be either gold (and genious) or misleading (not to say too subjective to be useful in the act of using a typing method, which is our purpose here, as far as I got it). One thing is to share an opinion, but it is something else to to that by the cost of 'humiliating' (this word is strong but not inaccurate imo) someone else's point of view.

Is this method of typing (CT VR) subjective? I don't think so (some would disagree, I know). But it is applied by humans (us), who carry a whole soup of  lucidly penetrating insights as well as misleading perceptions and interpretations that come from impressions and unfortunately it's not always a clear line the one between what is subjective/personal and what is objective/universal in human psyque. Despite these inconveniences when we try to use an objective method (and this is one of the reasons why it's so hard to type ourselves correctly without the help of other people and a reliable objective method), we can still make it through, as we've been doing so far in most cases. 

I wonder what catastrophe could derive from the fact of ackowledging the possibilty of what we believe to me a lucidly penetrating personal insight (in reading signals in someone) might just be a complete misleading distorted personal perception. That can be tough if one (deep inside) tries desperately not to be part of this limited human condition, in which we are all trapped. And if there's an anditode to the unpleantness of our limitations and distortions, I believe it lies in acknowledging the fact that we ALL (with no exception) can be wrong all the time. Forgive me if I'm wrong.