MsLajlaa- LOL. Yes! Now I understand the Ni hype...although I think I may sort of prefer my Ne/Si. I don't think I have the right personality for Ni/Se and I'm fairly sure my "flow" state is more heightened Ne/Si than Ni (as I still see too many possibilities, I just sort through them quicker), although I do think meditation sounds very conducive to Ni like brain activity. Do you actually have more trouble accessing your P than J functions? Sorry if this is a somewhat nosy question, but I find my P functions come pretty naturally, almost passively, whereas I have to make a more conscious effort to make decisions or assert myself. I can, it just requires me to push myself a bit.
ayoungspirit: Thank you for your (as always) sensible analysis. By that logic I probably am P-lead, as that sounds like why I'm happy, seeing plenty of bad, but a lot more good (some people online have even thought I'm a pessimist, which is odd as I think I'm almost stupidly idealistic and optimistic and it's one of the traits I have a love/hate relationship with). I agree that extrapolating too far is a problem in much of typology, not just Nardi's work, and part of why it can be so hard to find a place in many models. I do think that the same processes can lead to opposite behaviors, and different processes can lead to the same one, and that that's what CT's trying to show. I may be misfollowing his chain of logic, but I'm pretty sure there's a slide in one of his presentations that essentially links Fp1 to happiness and Fp2 to sadness.
Post by ayoungspirit on Jul 31, 2013 12:38:24 GMT -5
A : I don't trust entirely the slides, as they are made to be understandable to all the possible audience, and not to be philosophical course about the exact nature of happiness, but it makes for interesting questions. I would define myself as somewhat of a struggler regarding this aspect as I am not a very happy-go-lucky person but I try to look forward, like you can see in my signature quote. I believe the problem could not be reduced to brain zones, and more so to only one, but there might be some regular intrication, like the T5 zone that can make you as happy as miserable or have none effect whatsoever on your mood depending on your use of it and the people on which it apply. I maybe inclined to not react much to these kind of things as I put the happiness problem under the overall meaning problem and think that over-relying on it as an end make for great blind-spots sometimes.
Last Edit: Aug 30, 2013 19:45:38 GMT -5 by ayoungspirit
ayoungspirit: I definitely agree that Ni is overrated. (I guess it has come clear to everyone... ) According to Nardi, every type can and does experience light blue brain state, high Ni-users just reach it maybe more frequently and in more varied situations. I agree it's morally questionable to strive for constant Ni bliss, and I don't think it's even possible. Humanity would be distinct quite fast, if there was nothing but light blue euphoria. And God, that would be boring! Still, I'm prone to believe that certain amount of that state can enhance one's general well-being and that people yearn for that feeling, even if in different frequencies. I wouldn't mind having a bit more of that in my subjective life experience.
ayoungspirit- I do agree I may be over-focusing on certain points, but there are only so many things about myself I know with complete certain, it's hard not to try and fit them in. And, to me, being happy sort of is the point of life. I may have a somewhat odd perception of what happiness is, but if I don't like myself and my life at the end of the day, I'm doing something wrong. Perhaps satisfaction would be a better word, or fulfillment, but those have the wrong connotations and I sort of like just simply happy. Yes, I am shallow. I've accepted that long ago, but I can turn my shallow goals towards making something of myself, which will make me happy.
Post by ayoungspirit on Jul 31, 2013 12:46:54 GMT -5
MsLajlaa : I have a general book that treats of relationship between meditation and brain state with the help of neurosciences (Rick Hanson, Buddha's Brain), and it say that the reason we are so much benefiting from meditation is because it makes us relate to our natural capacity to calm ourself and rest, but it has become harder and harder to do so because evolution has slain all the naturally meditative animals, letting only the ones who were sufficiently good at stress to survive. The contemplative monkeys were like our modern philosophers, peaceful and wise, but also clumsy and dead
A : shallowness is the name we give to attitudes we shallowly don't get
Last Edit: Jul 31, 2013 12:48:47 GMT -5 by ayoungspirit
A: I touched that theme here: cognitivetype.boards.net/thread/348/perception-functions-reach. Like I said, it ended in embarrassment. I'm still prone to speak of my felt imbalance of function loops in the CT language, meaning that it makes sense to me to say that my perception oscillation has too little room in my daily life. At least I feel that I have more brain area specific activity than Ni overall holistic brain state. Or who knows if I have yellow and red global patterns more often, something that Nardi speaks about in the page 20 (http://www.pdx.edu/sysc/sites/www.pdx.edu.sysc/files/neuro-systems.pdf -> thanks vilnius !). Don't know, though, how those people having yellow and red patterns experience them (negatively or positively).
Post by ayoungspirit on Aug 1, 2013 13:27:07 GMT -5
Some additional thoughts : could the physical habits of an individual, mostly his or her sports activities, influence his or her demeanor in regard of the brain regions involved ? Dance, routines, etc.
Last Edit: Oct 30, 2014 17:04:26 GMT -5 by ayoungspirit
Shivaree : what do you think of my last point ? What kind of physical activities do you have ? Seems that you travel a lot too, and that could be consider a game for which one has to be reactive
I don't really have relevant ideas on this subject, because I've never analysed physical activities from that point of view. I actually suck at sports, (especially collective ones). I've always been too clumsy, lacking coordination, spatial skills AND interest Just some thoughts though: You're mentionning dance, classical dancers are often said to have a very straight back and they carry their head in a beautiful way (we would say "un beau port de tΓͺte" in French), so if we were to type Marie-Claude Pietragalla, may be we should take that aspect into account... If you practice a sport intensively, I'm pretty sure it might influence the way you apprehend other areas of interest, even if not related to that sport, because practice will develop some areas of your brain as you said. I think there is also a kind of innate kinesthetic intelligence including the ability to make "spontaneous" strategic choices, coordination, spatial orientation, etc. But I don't know which functions it would mobilize, probably Se-Ni? More widely, I'm wondering about other circumstancial factors that might mislead visual reading : some friends asked me about the influence of mimetism, when I told them about CT theory. All these facial expressions we "catch" through contact with our relatives. I'm also thinking about the way we stand and sit : we can be influenced by sport, education, body structure, etc.
PS : you're right about travels : from the issuance of the visa to the arrival and the daily life in a foreign country, they taught me to be more reactive, resourceful and organized.
Post by ayoungspirit on Aug 12, 2013 11:59:16 GMT -5
Since we have already mixed brain activity with external body manifestations, I was wondering if it would be suitable to extend our speculation and our yearn for measure to the neural system at large. Let me explain myself : on one hand, I believe CT assume that the neural system is connected as a whole and that some body moves are cue of brain activity. On the other hand, different schools of traditional medicine that have been recently supported by more serious studies theorize about circulation and blockage of energy in some regions or organs, and advocate the virtue of some coherence exercise around the breath and the heart rate (biofeedback). We know for a fact that there is not only a deep connection between brain and rest of the body, but also plenty of neurons in other parts of the latter. So my concern and curiosity would be about pattern not only in the deep and primal brain, but all around. Outside of the head fetish, would there be anything like circuits or a state of flow around the heart or the belly ? Would there be types/subtypes, corresponding to the CT ones ?
Last Edit: Aug 30, 2013 20:19:08 GMT -5 by ayoungspirit
Post by ayoungspirit on Sept 1, 2013 13:36:22 GMT -5
A, MsLajlaa : I was going through Daniel Goleman's book, Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ, and I happened to found data possibly relating to the emotional model proposed by Nardi. By his account, the prefrontal lobes have a conjoined role with the amygdala to determine complex emotional response. The left one is effectively dedicated to shut off negative emotions produced by the right one, in such fashion that people who are impaired of one or the other are excessively happy or nervous. Nevertheless, as the coherence models have been able to suggest, I believe this is a complex, cohesive and detailed circuit. I don't think the slide was overly conclusive on this respect, more likely showing the properties of the zones.
On another note, Goleman also elaborates, and strongly advocates, about a state of flow associated with expertise, and with a deep feeling of accomplishment and joy. He is less enthusiastic but still mostly positive about the ability of dissociating oneself from negative emotions to stay optimistic.
I can't give you the exact references, since I am reading the French Edition, but the frontal lobe description is in the chapter 2 of the first part, dedicated to the anatomy of emotion in the brain, and the others description in chapter 5 and 6 of the second part, dedicated to the nature of what he call emotional intelligence.
By his account, the prefrontal lobes have a conjoined role with the amygdala to determine complex emotional response. The left one is effectively dedicated to shut off negative emotions produced by the right one, in such fashion that people who are impaired of one or the other are excessively happy or nervous.
Nice found! If I base my assessment of brain area use on this and Nardi's descriptions, I definitely seem to use fp2 more. But as said, there is more to emotional stability than the frontal lobes. Still, I feel a bit confused about the judgers/fp1 and perceivers/fp2 division.
ayoungspirit Off-topic, I don't know if it's only me who see that but your answers were posted in August 8 and 12 and we're the 2nd... Have been in the future or what??
ayoungspirit LOL oops... I totally forgot we're in September, as if I wanted to stay in a August loop forever ^^ *tries to find a place to hide far away*
@morsecode I prefer to be funny *on purpose* XP
Last Edit: Sept 2, 2013 9:37:08 GMT -5 by peppergirl