(I didn't verify, but has Mike ever been a teacher? haha. well he is in front of a chalkboard in that gif.). Anyways, I am just saying that "voice swelling" can be learned behavior. Especially for people whose career depends on their voices (teachers, actors, etc).
Yes, Mike is a university philosophy teacher.
I have seen a lot of Fi users that were really good at teaching and most of them weren't monotone at all. In fact most of them always came off as very excited and passionate about their subject and that was why they were so good at teaching. You don’t need to be a Fe user to have passion.
Last Edit: Jan 26, 2014 3:10:47 GMT -5 by TheLogicFan
Post by TheLogicFan on Jan 26, 2014 8:54:46 GMT -5
Shane (NFGeeks)
So in this video we have Mike talking with Shane. Shane is one of those rare cases that was actually typed correctly (using MBTI). Shane is a real NiFe and it’s very clear in this video. Mike on the other hand is not a NiFe and this video should also make that clear. So let’s look at the signals again.
Shane has Ti neutralizations, regular neutral face, Fe smiles, interpersonal smiles, Ti pauses, Fe laughs, few gestures, Ti hands, Pi energy (viscous swaying…). Mike has none of these signals.
Mike’s has tension, emotions lingers on his face, Fi smiles, head go up and back when he laughs, he looks away while laughing, constant gestures, face tilts (forward), constant giggling, blunt eyebrow raises, continuous speech, Fi hands, Te head nods, strong posture, Je energy. Shane had none of these signals.
I don’t understand how anyone could possible think that Mike is a NiFe. You would have to think that the two people in this video were the exact same type, in spite of them displaying completely opposite judging signals. Do anyone still think that Mike is a NiFe?
Last Edit: Jan 26, 2014 8:57:34 GMT -5 by TheLogicFan
TheLogicFan Unfortunately I don't have much time to watch them extensively but as I said for Mike I'm not convinced for TeNi (neither NiFe), all I see is hardcore Ni and a mix of Fi and Fe signals. Anyway, to me he's Ni-lead, inertial energy and viscous swaying, that's clear. There are two types possible: NiTe or NiFe. His smile doesn't look subpolar-Fi so... Very tricky case :/
I have to agree with Heron, Morsecode and Peppergirl. NiFe seems to be the best fit . He is Ni HEAVY. Emingtonw, I see lots of Ni 'zone outs', check 2:36, 2:45, 3:12, 3:35, 3:51 in the first vid. His hands are a toss up, but his voice isn't - Very Fe rhythm of speech imo.
Had a quick look at NiFe types in 'visual reading', Jane Goodall does nothing but karate chop with her hands in the vid. I have to agree that relying on hand signals in this example isn't going to be the most reliable method.
looked at 2:36 and 2:45... he looks to the side but just keeps right on talking. I'm talking about the ZONE outs like where there is no eye movement blinking solid pause and look through you kind of zone out. Or perhaps I do not really know what a zone out is?
I'm talking about this
Regardless.. there is plenty of Ni Scowling and there is certainly no Ne toggling so. No dispute on the Ni/Se...
I just wouldn't call those time stamps you listed zone-outs. I would say... I donno... Se "sharp darts" maybe? haha
Anyhow my vote (if it counts for anything haha) still goes for Te... especially after that side by side comparison video from TheLogicFan where he is sitting right next to an obvious Ti user.
Edit 3:12 does seem like a zone out... quick one lol but zone out just the same. Good Catch!!
Last Edit: Jan 26, 2014 12:28:49 GMT -5 by Deleted
Post by TheLogicFan on Jan 28, 2014 20:40:24 GMT -5
Kristina (NFGeeks)
In this video Mike talks with Kristina who thinks she is an ENFP. In CT she is a TeNi (just like Mike).
Kristina has Fi smiles, lingering emotions, Te head nods, blunt eyebrow raises, continuous speech, strong posture, constant gestures, Fi hands, Ni eyes (hypnotic, eye drift, zone-outs, Ni scowls) and Je energy.
This is another great comparison video. In the last video I posted it was pretty clear that Mike didn’t have much in common with a NiFe (as far as judging functions), but in this video we can see how much he has in common with a TeNi. They even think they are the same type (ENFP) in MBTI.
Last Edit: Jan 28, 2014 20:40:39 GMT -5 by TheLogicFan
I just wanted to say that i didn't stop to follow the thread, i'm preparing a comment (that will possibly be another thread at this point since i have many things to say) to continue what i stopped to discuss here. I just have many things to do lately, with school, and maybe in the near future analysis (allergy from tomato apparently exists .-.).
Post by TheLogicFan on Jan 30, 2014 20:31:08 GMT -5
David Mark Keirsey (NFGeeks)
In this video Mike talks with David Mark Keirsey (son of David West Keirsey) who thinks he is an INTP. In CT he is a TeNi.
He has Fi smiles, tension, lingering emotions, blunt eyebrow raises, Te head nods, dismissive shrugs, Fi giggling, Fi hands, constant gestures, Ni eyes, Je energy.
Again we have all the same signals that Mike also has. Since David also looks a lot like Mike (minus the beard) the similarities should be especially clear.
Last Edit: Jan 30, 2014 20:31:26 GMT -5 by TheLogicFan
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NFGeeksJan 30, 2014 20:38:39 GMT -5 by DeletedHeron likes this
TheLogicFan I agree David Keirsey is a TeNi - the signals are present. (gosh he's completely mistyped, all functions /o\... he and the people he used to base himself in the creation of that 'temperament' NF, NT, SP, SJ trip xD. At least he's an 'NT', got this one right )
But really, I still can't (CAAANNNN'T) believe you (still) think Mike leads with Te.
Last Edit: Jan 30, 2014 20:43:40 GMT -5 by Deleted
TheLogicFan I agree David Keirsey is a TeNi - the signals are present. (gosh he's completely mistyped, all functions /o\... he and the people he used to base himself in the creation of that 'temperament' NF, NT, SP, SJ trip xD. At least he's an 'NT', got this one right )
But really, I still can't (CAAANNNN'T) believe you (still) think Mike leads with Te.
Why not? As far as I can tell he has all the necessary signals and his behavior and personality all fits with being Te-lead. What do you think I'm missing?
Do you see how similar Mike and David are? Would you agree that Mike is a Fi/Te user?
Last Edit: Jan 30, 2014 22:36:30 GMT -5 by TheLogicFan
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NFGeeksJan 30, 2014 21:32:52 GMT -5 by DeletedHeron likes this
Honestly, no, Mike's signals don't match Te-lead. The Te-lead signals were listed by Erifrail (and are in motion on Larin Video Series), I won't take the trouble to repeat them and I find it terribly boring and 'time-consuming' to try to convince people of things (and also objectively I've got currently no time for that even if I hd a different personality and had that need). I was just sharing my surprise in that part, because you don't often misread signals.
And I don't see how similar Mike and David are. Mike is clearly a Pi-lead and David clearly a Je-lead. The only intersection I see is the heavy Ni signals.
About Mike's J functions, I haven't landed on them yet... I think both Fi/Te and Ti/Fe are possible because he seems to give off mixed signals and his chubby cheeks don't help.
Last Edit: Jan 30, 2014 21:43:41 GMT -5 by Deleted
Today i will probably be able to write the "famous" post.
Anyway, i'm going to say my opinions about the other people you posted here lately:
Kristina: that's quite interesting. I think she's TiSe, and this is not the first time that we meet one who seems to convey FiTe signals in the face. She does have lots of tension around the mouth, but for all the rest, i think it is not so evident. She reminds me the case of Kirsten Stewart, and the two are really similar (Kirsten Stewart is not my reading, she's in the official list).
Also the tone of voice. She has that peculiar tone that seems "fake", like if she's faking a good intonation of some sort, in a way many other TiSes do as well (Daniel Goleman, Christian Bale, Keanu Reeves ect). In reality, while i admit that i could be wrong with TiSe, i think that there are very few possibilities that she's a TeNi: she doesn't display many Je gestures, While Mike for comparison does that quite a lot. She's also not very dismissive. If i'm wrong and she's gamma, i would say that she's more probably FiSe than anything else.
David Mark Kersey: i totally agree that he's gamma, but i have some doubts that he's TeNi. Yes, he's extremely rigid in the video, but i was thinking that his neck is incredibly strange. His shoulders are really too high to be normal ._. his neck is almost motionless and the back just fixed in place. I am thinking that he's probably paralytic, he moves in the same exact way the father of my old TeNi friend did. I don't remember what the problem was, it was something like "vertebrae calcification", and so it prevented to make any movement with his shoulders and back. I think he is a similar case, even if probably is not so extreme, he looks quite unhealthy and worn out. Also, he displays a lots, lots of Ni, more than i personally expect from a Te lead. And i think that the tension around his mouth is very subtle, this is very common with NiTes, and in fact, i think that David is NiTe. I think that you see similarities between them because probably they are both Ni leads. And... to finish, he's identical to Charles Dance (NiTe).
Shane: he puzzled me for a while... and i don't have a strong defined opinion. Only the Types i thought about for him. FeSi - NiFe - FeNi.
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NFGeeksJan 31, 2014 9:39:01 GMT -5 by Deletedvia mobileHeron likes this
Heron, your comments about Keirsey made me notice how his way of speaking and the rhythm of his body are the same as my NiTe grandma. (who i at firat thought was TeNi.. And Erifrail opened my eyes about her leading with Ni). Also, his Ni seems heavier than his Te. And he seema moar an worldviewer than an articulator. I think you nailed it in typing him as NiTe. Yesterday when i saw the video i had no time to watch more than 1 minute footage and typing in a rush can be very problemtic. NiTe (alt. TeNi). Good call!
Post by TheLogicFan on Jan 31, 2014 13:53:39 GMT -5
Mike (NFGeeks)
In this video Dr. Mike talks with Mike (same name, different person) who thinks he is an ISTP. This time the type is almost correct. In CT Mike would be a SeTi.
Mike has Ti neutralizations, Ti pauses, regular neutral face, Fe smiles, Fe laugh, Ti hands, Ti gesturing, Se/Ni eyes, Pe energy.
Last Edit: Jan 31, 2014 13:53:52 GMT -5 by TheLogicFan
Kristina: that's quite interesting. I think she's TiSe, and this is not the first time that we meet one who seems to convey FiTe signals in the face. She does have lots of tension around the mouth, but for all the rest, i think it is not so evident. She reminds me the case of Kirsten Stewart, and the two are really similar (Kirsten Stewart is not my reading, she's in the official list).
Also the tone of voice. She has that peculiar tone that seems "fake", like if she's faking a good intonation of some sort, in a way many other TiSes do as well (Daniel Goleman, Christian Bale, Keanu Reeves ect). In reality, while i admit that i could be wrong with TiSe, i think that there are very few possibilities that she's a TeNi: she doesn't display many Je gestures, While Mike for comparison does that quite a lot. She's also not very dismissive. If i'm wrong and she's gamma, i would say that she's more probably FiSe than anything else.
TiSe is not a possible alternative for Kristina since she doesn’t have Ti/Fe. FiSe on the other hands is more likely. It’s actually the only reasonable alternative given the signals she displays. But she doesn’t seem to have the affected look that Fi-leads usually have. She comes of much more stoic and strong. Throughout her videos she maintains a strong posture and at no time does she ever deflate or freeze. Her energy doesn’t retreat into herself and she doesn’t close her eyes much. She also display constant gesturing and deliberate strong signals. So she has all the signals necessary to be a Je-lead.
Here is a video with her boyfriend Mike who is a SeTi. Again the differences in judging functions are very clear. Kristina uses Fi/Te while Mike (boyfriend) uses Ti/Fe. I especially like the part of the video from 08.40 to 09.15. In that part Mike (boyfriend) talks about how she is really intelligent, focused and take her work home with her because she needs to talk about things (out loud with someone) and then she actually follow up and enact everything that was talked about. She sees things to an end. She achieves her goals. Kristina also describes herself as a firefighter (when she is at work). She likes to be on top of everything and know about problems (fires) before anyone else. That way she can try to solve them and minimize the potential fallout. She is a problem solver. Both Mike (boyfriend) and Kristina work in human services. But where Mike (boyfriend) is in the front lines as residential house manager (giving direct care), Kristina is residential program coordinator (with people working under her) and working in an office. She is pretty much a general who strategically moves her troops around to where they can do the most good. Can the Te-leadness be any more obvious?
Ok, here's more points i can give about Mike's type. I even resumed the handouts and the videos to be precise as possible. I wanted to make this post very big, and very detailed, but... i have other things to do in a day, and even if i want to explain myself in the best i can't spend a day writing things that should be obvious. Everyone can see these things by themselves, resuming the Larin serie and the documents, using much less time than i would writing everything here. Anyway, if i will write another post, another day, i will show more examples and comparisons trough videos and pictures, so this can be considered "part one". If someone was not aware of the existence of these documents, just click in the database link over there, but i will put the downloads here for convenience. CognitiveType Summary Of Basics Signals. CognitiveType Summary Of Advanced Signals.
First, why he can't be a Te lead:
While his scowl is plain Ni, and even the shape of the eyebrows is, he never shows any manic scowl (aka: distinctive signal for TeNis), in fact his eyebrows remain extremely relaxed, rarely moving them all through the video.
His articulation is not monotonic.
Taking for true the hypothesis that he's an Fi user, the tension he displays is not strong enough to consider him as a Te lead.
His dismissiveness is around 0.
His smile is not snarly.
His smile is not assimetrical (signal of Fi<Te).
No cold shouldershrugs.
No cold Headshakes.
His smile is not polar, nor subpolar Fi.
Now, why he can't be an Fi user in general:
His smile hasn't a vertical direction.
There isn't any random/accidental snarl in his face, there is tension (but...) it remains steady and never evolves in a snarl. Another NiFe that is similar in that sense is Olivia Williams.
(there is tension) but... the tension doesn't reach the side of the nostrils all through the sides of the mouth, it is at the sides and stops before. And, accordingly to the "advanced cues" document:
"As a general rule, the higher Ti is in the hierarchy the broader the “flat” zone of the cheeks will be, and the less the Fe smile will populate that flatness with warmth. As a general rule, the higher Fe is in the hierarchy the more muscular definition the zygomaticus major will have in the face"
His smile doesn't go up to one side.
His speech is not avalanching forward, it remains slow and orizontal, he never talks so rapidly to seem difficult to comprehend.
His headshakes are not snippy.
Now, why he's an Fe user:
Here i had to make a "copy & paste" from the "basic" document because there's no better way to explain that: "Fe: Has a swell/push midway, and trickles down smoothly."
His smile is plain interpersonal, even when he makes that quick laughter that can be mistaken for Fi, he's always showing that toward the interlocutor, and he always neutralize that extremely quickly.
His voice is always infused with pathos, and relies on an emotional impact from the listener (wich is not an indicator of emotivity or passion for what the person is saying as someone interpreted from my posts).
When he talks, his face is completely coordinated in emphasis and expressions, and also with his gesticulations.
Why i think he's NiFe
His smile is extremely cunning. And this is one of the most reliable signals when telling apart people from the beta quadra.
He has the "hypnotic" and "mesmerezing" eyes, like if he belongs to an arabian fairy tale. The combination of this signal + the first one on this list is peculiar for NiFe. I made a quick list of eyes from NiFes so you can see the similarities (including one friend (censored on some of his features) because the two are really similar).
The resemblance between these people is irrefutable.
He's evidently eye centric, as more than one people pointed out.
Now, i wanted to point out a few things.
Ti-Fi hands.
I will make a simple copy and paste from the "advanced" document. But before, i want to say a few things: in the article the reliability of this signal is considered "low", second, there is no great differentiation between Te and Fe gestures, like i said in a post before, so Fe leads and Te leads can show the same exact gestures in the same exact way. Caution and Potential Error: Hand gestures have the most potential for deliberate alteration, and thus are only mildly more indicative of one process over another, as people can learn to use their hands in different ways. Unlike the facial microexpressions, which are more subconscious, hand gestures can be easily faked or altered.
He says the same even in the video Erifrail posted once and you posted again in this thread. At 0:31.
So, this is it. I'm not going to write anything else about Mike, since everything that has to be said is written here. But i will write another post, that does not concern typing in a direct way.